GOAT by .5

[SNPA]

Whatever criteria you want.

GOAT by .5. (Filled out a few to illustrate idea)

.5 -
1 -
1.5 -
2 - Jordan
2.5 - Drexler
3 -
3.5 - Bird
4 -
4.5 - Duncan
5 - Russel
5.5 - Yao

5.5 is 7’3 and over so no KAJ/Wilt, etc.
.5 is sub 6’ listed height.

Is Manu at 1.5 crazy?

[falcolombardi]

could you explain a bit more? is this about greater player at each height?

[penbeast0]

Must be a metric thing . . .

[SNPA]

could you explain a bit more? is this about greater player at each height?

Natural position, as you define it.

I just put heights for the outliers to keep it clean.

And a player can hold more than one spot. I have Bird at 4 too.

[penbeast0]

So, natural positions to me are small guard (can't guard swing men), combo guard, swing man, combo forward, big man, and supergiant? The trouble is that doesn't match your listed players well. You really need to define your OP a lot more clearly.

[Cavsfansince84]

.5 Isiah
1.0 Magic
1.5 West
2.0 MJ
2.5 Gervin
3.0 LeBron
3.5 LeBron
4.0 Bird
4.5 Duncan
5.0 KAJ
5.5 Yao

[SNPA]

So, natural positions to me are small guard (can't guard swing men), combo guard, swing man, combo forward, big man, and supergiant? The trouble is that doesn't match your listed players well. You really need to define your OP a lot more clearly.

Mapping your terms…

Small guard - 1
Combo guard - 1.5
Swing man - 2.5
Combo Forward - 3.5
Big man - 4.5/5
Supergiant- 5.5

[Dr Positivity]

0.5 Iverson
1 Paul
1.5 West
2 Jordan
2.5 Drexler
3 Erving
3.5 Lebron
4 Dirk
4.5 Duncan
5 Russell
5.5 Kareem

I'm not even going to try to rate Magic

[SNPA]

0.5 Iverson
1 Paul
1.5 West
2 Jordan
2.5 Drexler
3 Erving
3.5 Lebron
4 Dirk
4.5 Duncan
5 Russell
5.5 Kareem

I'm not even going to try to rate Magic

I was trying to keep this open to criteria but felt the ends of the spectrum needed perimeters so the true giants and tinys had slots. I specifically thought of AI in doing this, that’s were the listed 6’ height comes from. AI is 6’. I don’t think he belongs with Muggsy, Spud and co.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/947/career/

[falcolombardi]

defining positions is really tricky because there are at least 4 factors to consider: height/wingpsan, width/build. offensive role and defensive role

jokic is a center but he is also essentially his team
-point guard-

durant is technically a wing (3) has the height of a center (5) plays the -power forward- role in defense (4) as secondary rim protector and offensively plays the offensive role of a traditional -shooting guard- (2)

however his slender build doesnt fit the traditional defensive power forward profile (let alone center) but it does in modern basketball meta of slimmer and more mobile wings protecting thw rim and perimeter

giannis alternates between a (4) and (5) in defense and between a (1) and (5) in offense

etc

anyway if i tried to define positions tjis way i would go with somethingh like this, going more by size and body Type than role played for simplicity sake

0.5 isiah thomas (fairly small guards)

1 chris paul (slightly taller AND wider/heavier)

1.5 Stephen curry (in other eras or leagues a point guard curry size is fairly big, modern nba seems to have bigger point guards in average although i dont have actual data to back up my hunch)

2 dwane wade? i am unsure if kobe goes here or in 2.5 since wade is a lot wider than him

2.5 jordan (same thingh as with kobe, he could be a 2 too)

3 julius erving

3.5 lebron james (can play the 4 and defend smaller bigs)

4 larry bird (natural position tbh, duncan is a center)

4.5 bill russel/tim duncan* (center but i cannot put him at 5 because there are bigger 5's, and 5's even bigger than those)

5 kareem/wilt? (the archetypical giants, albeit in very different builds, in reality they are much bigger than your average center but i need to make space for the supergiants)

5.5 shaq (way heavier at peak than wilt even if height/reach is similar)

supergiants or "6" would be players like arvydas sabonis
yao ming or even height super outliers like manute bol

[Dr Positivity]

0.5 Iverson
1 Paul
1.5 West
2 Jordan
2.5 Drexler
3 Erving
3.5 Lebron
4 Dirk
4.5 Duncan
5 Russell
5.5 Kareem

I'm not even going to try to rate Magic

I was trying to keep this open to criteria but felt the ends of the spectrum needed perimeters so the true giants and tinys had slots. I specifically thought of AI in doing this, that’s were the listed 6’ height comes from. AI is 6’. I don’t think he belongs with Muggsy, Spud and co.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/947/career/

Muggsy is probably a 0 here. I think 5'11 or 6'0 is about right for Iverson, so maybe I could go with someone shorter for 0.5. I remember in his football highlights his size looks decent compared to regular people.

[fjd0913]

0.5 - Calvin Murphy

1 - Nash

1.5 - Curry

2 - Miller

2.5 - Jordan

3 - Pippen

3.5 - Lebron

4 - Malone

4.5 - Duncan

5 - Kareem

5.5 - Yao, or Walton if he makes the cut (I think he was around 7'3" IIRC)

[penbeast0]

Walton was around 6'11, Bill Russell/Tim Duncan sized but a bit heavier built.

[penbeast0]

Below 5'9: Muggsy (yes, Calvin Murphy is too tall, lol)
5'9-6'1: John Stockton
6-2 to 6-5: Steph Curry
6-6 to 6-9: LeBron James
6-10 to 7-1: Bill Russell
7-2 or taller: Kareem

[SNPA]

Below 5'9: Muggsy (yes, Calvin Murphy is too tall, lol)
5'9-6'1: John Stockton
6-2 to 6-5: Steph Curry
6-6 to 6-9: LeBron James
6-10 to 7-1: Bill Russell
7-2 or taller: Kareem

Was hoping for more by role than height.

Ex. I’d have James at PG, same for Magic.

We all know the standard choices for GOAT by 1-5, I think adding tweeners makes for interesting insight and conversation.

[Statlanta]

.5 - Chris Paul
1 - Steph Curry
1.5 - Jerry West
2 - Michael Jordan
2.5 - Kawhi Leonard
3 - Julius Erving
3.5 - LeBron James
4 - Dirk Nowitzki
4.5 - Duncan
5 - Bill Russell
5.5 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[falcolombardi]

[streamable][/streamable]

Walton was around 6'11, Bill Russell/Tim Duncan sized but a bit heavier built.

didnt walton intentionally lowball his height (only player other than Kevin garnett i have heard of doing that) cause he thought it was weird to say he was bigger than 7 feet?

[feyki]

Whatever criteria you want.

GOAT by .5. (Filled out a few to illustrate idea)

.5 - CP
1 - Curry
1.5 - West
2 - Jordan
2.5 - Oscar
3 - Erving
3.5 - LBJ, Magic second
4 - Bird
4.5 - Duncan
5 - Russel
5.5 - Yao

5.5 is 7’3 and over so no KAJ/Wilt, etc.
.5 is sub 6’ listed height.

Is Manu at 1.5 crazy?

Listed.

[Dutchball97]

.5 - Slater Martin
1 - Magic Johnson
1.5 - Jerry West
2 - Michael Jordan
2.5 - John Havlicek
3 - Julius Erving
3.5 - LeBron James
4 - Karl Malone
4.5 - Tim Duncan
5 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5.5 - Yao Ming

I don't really see too much value in the .5 and 5.5 categories as they don't play different roles than 1 and 5 respectively, they're just unusually short/tall for the league.

Besides that the most surprising thing to me in this excercise is how many of the best PFs were either bigs who played both the 4 and 5 (Duncan, KG, Dirk, Pettit) or combo forwards who spent significant time at both forward positions (LeBron, Bird, KD, Barkley). Karl Malone isn't a bad choice but he pretty much wins by default. Maybe Giannis could make a case because I'm not entirely sure whether 3.5 or 4.5 would be accurate for him.

2.5 is kind of tough as you could technically put MJ and Kobe there but I really don't view either if them as anything but a shooting guard.

[Owly]

Was hoping for more by role than height.

I think including non-positions defined by height (0.5, 5.5) may have confused the issue. This is arguably also seen in the number of 0.5's given that don't meet your height criteria (or maybe people just taking it as a loose guide and ignoring listed height, and perhaps misspelling Isaiah for the smaller, more recent Thomas).

It might have been better to ask about "tiny" and "super giant" players separately from best at (half) positions.

Oh and Russell (Bill) is double l.


I'd throw in Terrell Brandon for consideration in the (major league era) listed under 6ft guards. Doesn't have the HoF or longevity of Murphy, the box-peak of Isaiah Thomas or the team success of Martin. And his box-production peak looks deflated by a slow paced team in a slowing era. But he's the second highest production peak (25.2 PER, .237 WS/48. 7.5 BPM) but without being a defensive liability (Thomas was, Murphy - though tough - may have been) and is then good when he plays, though injuries and longevity are a negative.