Biggest offensive impact increase from 1st to 2nd option

CommonerCoffee · Post #1 » by **CommonerCoffee** » Thu Feb 3, 2022 11:37 pm

Who comes to mind when thinking of players that are not offensively potent as the focal point of an opponent's defense but excel when operating as the 2nd option? Are there any historical cases where a player may even be an offensive negative as the 1st option but a strong positive as the 2nd?

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Feb 3, 2022 11:45 pm

Its almost impossible to calculate this type of increase to any meaningful capacity but...

Kyrie Irving

Pre-LeBron the team was terrible and, more importantly, the Cavaliers weren't any better with him on the court than with him on the bench. LeBron joins, Kyrie is shifted into a more scoring role with all the defensive focus on James, and Kyrie has a special season [Remember that game against the Spurs?]

SHAQ32 · Post #3 » by **SHAQ32** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 12:45 am

Iverson's efficiency went up in Denver, but I think that had more to do with rule changes and switching conferences

parsnips33 · Post #4 » by **parsnips33** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 12:53 am

Chris Bosh?

prolific passer · Post #5 » by **prolific passer** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 3:32 am

I'm thinking of Pippen.

henshao · Post #6 » by **henshao** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 3:45 am

I think a lot of point guards are going to fall into this description

falcolombardi · Post #7 » by **falcolombardi** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 5:06 am

david robinson

Dr Positivity · Post #8 » by **Dr Positivity** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 6:01 am

Pau was better as the 2nd guy. But he also fit the triangle well.

McBubbles · Post #9 » by **McBubbles** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 10:27 am

Pau Gasol is 100% the definitive answer to this question.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #10 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Fri Feb 4, 2022 10:33 am

David Robinson

feyki · Post #11 » by **feyki** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 12:55 pm

Garnett.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #12 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 1:25 pm

Kevin Durant
]:)

PistolPeteJR · Post #13 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Mon Feb 7, 2022 11:42 pm

Siakam

rand · Post #14 » by **rand** » Tue Feb 8, 2022 7:25 am

CommonerCoffee wrote:Who comes to mind when thinking of players that are not offensively potent as the focal point of an opponent's defense but excel when operating as the 2nd option? Are there any historical cases where a player may even be an offensive negative as the 1st option but a strong positive as the 2nd?

There are no shortage of players who were a larger positive as a 2nd option than a 1st option, but I doubt there are any players who were a strong positive as a 2nd option but producing negative absolute value on offense as the 1st option.

I think the question also has to distinguish by age. Although I can't think of an example off the top of my head, I can imagine a player who as a young rookie is put into the role of being a terrible team's 1st option and struggling badly to the point of being an absolute negative on offense, then moving to a situation where he is a 2nd option behind a superior 1st option at the same time he improves as an offensive player. The offensive delta will appear larger because of the development between the time of being the 1st option vs 2nd, and if the developed player is moved back into a 1st option role they might be an absolute positive on offense at that time.

Colbinii wrote:Its almost impossible to calculate this type of increase to any meaningful capacity but...

Kyrie Irving

Pre-LeBron the team was terrible and, more importantly, the Cavaliers weren't any better with him on the court than with him on the bench. LeBron joins, Kyrie is shifted into a more scoring role with all the defensive focus on James, and Kyrie has a special season [Remember that game against the Spurs?]

I agree that pre-LeBron the Cavs were generally not any better with Kyrie on the floor than off, but I do not think that was because Kyrie as a 1st option was an absolute negative on offense. I think he was a plus offensive player even as their 1st option in his youth but a massive negative on defense resulting in a wash.