Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[KGdaBom]

Hardens a superstar? In what world?

In the NBA world. Sensational player.

[SO_MONEY]

I'm giving Morey a standing ovation! Everyone said it was stupid, it couldn't be done. He has to trade Simmons in the summer, he has to trade Simmons before training camp, he has to trade Simmons before the season starts. He didn't have to do any of that. He played the long game and won. He wanted a superstar, he wanted to put the Sixers in the title picture while Embiid is in his prime.

It was a bold and great move to hold out, let the market change, and strike when he got his chance. Regardless of if this works out or not, I give him huge props for having the balls to hold out and get what he wanted as opposed to being pressured to act. He was in a situation where he could afford to wait and he won.

Except he clearly lost. He should now be fired.

If they win a championship, maybe even they come close, it's a win.

Future results do not determine current value.

[Calinks]

I'm giving Morey a standing ovation! Everyone said it was stupid, it couldn't be done. He has to trade Simmons in the summer, he has to trade Simmons before training camp, he has to trade Simmons before the season starts. He didn't have to do any of that. He played the long game and won. He wanted a superstar, he wanted to put the Sixers in the title picture while Embiid is in his prime.

It was a bold and great move to hold out, let the market change, and strike when he got his chance. Regardless of if this works out or not, I give him huge props for having the balls to hold out and get what he wanted as opposed to being pressured to act. He was in a situation where he could afford to wait and he won.

Didn't Morey state Simmons was worth an all-star and picks in exchange? And yet, he ended up dealing Simmons with picks, along with a pretty good player in Curry, for an all-star? To make matters worse, that all-star has basically given up on his past two teams in less than two years and will be making a significant chunk of change next season.

I'm not saying Morey wasn't right to wait, but this is no slam dunk either.

People are acting like James Harden hasn't been in the running for MVP for several years. Yea he hasn't been the same this season and he looked bad last season, maybe that's him falling off, maybe that's him not putting in the effort because he felt he was in poor situations. If Harden is anything close to what he has been for 80 percent of his career, the Sixers have a superstar player, the type of player they have needed to carry the offensive burden, and hit big shots.

[KGdaBom]

I'm giving Morey a standing ovation! Everyone said it was stupid, it couldn't be done. He has to trade Simmons in the summer, he has to trade Simmons before training camp, he has to trade Simmons before the season starts. He didn't have to do any of that. He played the long game and won. He wanted a superstar, he wanted to put the Sixers in the title picture while Embiid is in his prime.

It was a bold and great move to hold out, let the market change, and strike when he got his chance. Regardless of if this works out or not, I give him huge props for having the balls to hold out and get what he wanted as opposed to being pressured to act. He was in a situation where he could afford to wait and he won.

Didn't Morey state Simmons was worth an all-star and picks in exchange? And yet, he ended up dealing Simmons with picks, along with a pretty good player in Curry, for an all-star? To make matters worse, that all-star has basically given up on his past two teams in less than two years and will be making a significant chunk of change next season.

I'm not saying Morey wasn't right to wait, but this is no slam dunk either.

Harden is beyond an All star.

[Calinks]

Except he clearly lost. He should now be fired.

If they win a championship, maybe even they come close, it's a win.

Future results do not determine current value.

Here is why he won.

Morey wanted a star player to help Embiid win a title. Someone who could carry the offensive load. Someone who could score and shoot. He traded for one of the most elite scorers in NBA history. He got what he wanted. He didn't take back assets and other things he felt wouldn't help his team win a title right now. He got exactly what he wanted, he won. Someone winning doesn't mean someone has to lose, Brooklyn got a nice deal out of it too.

[SO_MONEY]

If they win a championship, maybe even they come close, it's a win.

Future results do not determine current value.

Here is why he won.

Morey wanted a star player to help Embiid win a title. Someone who could carry the offensive load. Someone who could score and shoot. He traded for one of the most elite scorers in NBA history. He got what he wanted. He didn't take back assets and other things he felt wouldn't help his team win a title right now. He got exactly what he wanted, he won. Someone winning doesn't mean someone has to lose, Brooklyn got a nice deal out of it too.

He should be fired for this.

[Neeva]

Future results do not determine current value.

Here is why he won.

Morey wanted a star player to help Embiid win a title. Someone who could carry the offensive load. Someone who could score and shoot. He traded for one of the most elite scorers in NBA history. He got what he wanted. He didn't take back assets and other things he felt wouldn't help his team win a title right now. He got exactly what he wanted, he won. Someone winning doesn't mean someone has to lose, Brooklyn got a nice deal out of it too.

He should be fired for this.

Oh he will be in like a year . It’s what philly deserves Lol

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Hardens a superstar? In what world?

In the NBA world. Sensational player.

He’s a loser. Blew up 2 franchises in 3 years. Blew up the rockets with Chris Paul, annual 1 seed contenders to play with his loser buddy Russ. They sucked. So the rockets are strapped for picks they gave up to get Russ. Wants to play with his other cooler friend Kevin just 12.5 months ago because he started doing things his way in Houston. They grant him his wish and he can’t handle it in Brooklyn.

Yea. Sensational.

[KGdaBom]

Hardens a superstar? In what world?

In the NBA world. Sensational player.

He’s a loser. Blew up 2 franchises in 3 years. Blew up the rockets with Chris Paul, annual 1 seed contenders to play with his loser buddy Russ. They sucked. So the rockets are strapped for picks they gave up to get Russ. Wants to play with his other cooler friend Kevin just 12.5 months ago because he started doing things his way in Houston. They grant him his wish and he can’t handle it in Brooklyn.

Yea. Sensational.

In my best Peanuts voice when the teacher is droning on and on "Wah wah wah wah wah"

[younggunsmn]

Well the big winner in this deal is Ben Simmons. Much better fit with Durant and Irving who can carry the scoring load from the perimeter, and whose personalities he should mesh much better with.
Played it smart and listened to his agent throughout this instead of pulling a tanking spectacle like Harden or media spectacle like Butler. Good for him.

Morey got what he wanted too. Held onto Maxey and Thybulle also which is a win. Philly also is taking on the most risk here.
Simmons is 25 and Harden is 32 and is going to want an extension starting at 50 mil plus in the offseason if he doesnt change his mind a 3rd time and want yet another trade. He has not been very efficient this year, and if he slips any further that deal will make Westbrooks contract look like a bargain. There's a lot of upside, lot of downside too. Embiid is a notoriously demanding teammate and Harden has never meshed well with another super high usage player. Add in Doc Rivers and its quite the powderkeg.

I really like it for Brooklyn though. I like them better with Simmons, Curry, and Drummond than with Harden.
They badly needed some defense and rebounding and a spot up shooter like Curry will play well.
Plus refilling the cupboard with a couple of draft picks, they have drafted great with post lottery 1sts and 2nd for years now .
I think they will win this trade in the long term. Adding a 25 year All-Star to their 2 30 something superstars is a good long term move.

[packforfreedom]

solid deal for both teams

[KGdaBom]

It will be fun to see how Simmons does for Brooklyn. We will find out who was right and who was wrong about him.

[Slim Tubby]

I would advise Harden to avoid his "quitter/pouter" routine or Embiid will bury him under the Liberty Bell.

[winforlose]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/counter-report-james-harden-didn-000542982.html

Long story short, he may not have opted in. In which case they have to sign a massive max to an aging player or rent him for a season at the price of Simmons, Curry, Drummond, and two firsts. Assuming of course he didn’t opt in.

[shrink]

I would advise Harden to avoid his "quitter/pouter" routine or Embiid will bury him under the Liberty Bell.

It is amazing that a deal with Harden, a selfish player who quits on his teammates for weeks, will unite Ben Simmons and Kyrie Irving, two selfish players who quit on their teammates for months.

Welcome to the worst of the new NBA.

[winforlose]

Morey thinking he won is kinda weird. Gonna share this as it sums up my thoughts rather nicely. Article link below the quote

“ ESPN analyst Bobby Marks, a former assistant GM with the Nets, said on "NBA Today" that Harden's next contract will be the worst in league history.

"In three years — and I know it's all about winning a championship — we're gonna be talking about James Harden like we're talking about Russell Westbrook and like we're talking about John Wall from a contract standpoint. And that contract will be the worst contract in NBA history ... $62 million when he is 38 years of age."”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/james-hardens-off-court-habits-154338077.html

[shrink]

I wanted to wait a bit before posting, to let the immediate gut reactions die down a bit. I find it amusing, but understandable, that people with very different views on the value of Simmons can point to the same transaction, and say, “See, I was right!” People that highly value Simmons are likely to highly value Harden - those that don’t think as much about Simmons probably don’t value Harden that much.

Let me start by saying that a Top 5 player is very valuable. Looking back at previous NBA champs, it’s very rare for a team to win a ring if they don’t have one. However, players like this see their value drive off a cliff once they decline, because of the huge salaries that last for multiple years. It does not take long for one of the best contracts in the NBA to become one of the worst, and all the worst contracts are star players that are no longer stars. Would anyone be thrilled if this deal was for Westbrook?

So the question is .. is Harden a Top 5 player? Does he win PHI a championship? I don’t think he is at this level any more. Giannis, Steph, Jokic, Durant, LeBron, and even Embiid are clearly better. Harden’s history in the playoffs - even when he was younger - has not been good. What is guaranteed though is the cost - both in salary and in trade value. Those are lost opportunity costs.

For me, If you win a ring, all is forgiven. That’s the overall goal for an NBA franchise. But this was an all-in move on a second banana, who’s game, salary and personality may end up hurting the Sixers.

[Klomp]

Harden's value is not what it once was, but it is still very high. Same with Simmons. That's why they made such natural trade partners.

[winforlose]

I wanted to wait a bit before posting, to let the immediate gut reactions die down a bit. I find it amusing, but understandable, that people with very different views on the value of Simmons can point to the same transaction, and say, “See, I was right!” People that highly value Simmons are likely to highly value Harden - those that don’t think as much about Simmons probably don’t value Harden that much.

Let me start by saying that a Top 5 player is very valuable. Looking back at previous NBA champs, it’s very rare for a team to win a ring if they don’t have one. However, players like this see their value drive off a cliff once they decline, because of the huge salaries that last for multiple years. It does not take long for one of the best contracts in the NBA to become one of the worst, and all the worst contracts are star players that are no longer stars. Would anyone be thrilled if this deal was for Westbrook?

So the question is .. is Harden a Top 5 player? Does he win PHI a championship? I don’t think he is at this level any more. Giannis, Steph, Jokic, Durant, LeBron, and even Embiid are clearly better. Harden’s history in the playoffs - even when he was younger - has not been good. What is guaranteed though is the cost - both in salary and in trade value. Those are lost opportunity costs.

For me, If you win a ring, all is forgiven. That’s the overall goal for an NBA franchise. But this was an all-in move on a second banana, who’s game, salary and personality may end up hurting the Sixers.

In the article I linked to it shows a history of Harden being a toxic teammate. He is not aging well because he is partying and not doing enough to keep his body in shape. I also need to point out that one of the two firsts the 76ers gave will probably come during a rebuild. They lost a starting SG, downgraded their backup C and traded their best trade chip for a guy who hasn’t opted in and could easily opt out. That is half a season rental. You are correct that if Harden brings them a ring all is forgiven. But is he that much of an improvement on what they had last year? I think this trade is a like minefield without a good map. If you get through that is great, but there are too many things that can blow up in your face.

[KGdaBom]

Harden's value is not what it once was, but it is still very high. Same with Simmons. That's why they made such natural trade partners.

I'm not much of a Nets/Kyrie fan, but if Simmons plays awesome and leads them to a title it will put a big smile on my face.