Suns Just Another Team

[SkyBill40]

There is no need to show the evidence, where it would take 100+ hours to show the evidence.

I didn't have any burden of proof or any fancy talk to show. Maybe someone will agree, maybe they won't. It's just an interesting thing, that I've noticed today. Like minded people will maybe agree, opposite minded surely won't.

Actually, there is a need to show evidence. Look up "Burden of Proof" fallacy. You made the claims; support them with verifiable evidence. Your stating it would take "100+ hours" is pretty disingenuous. I think it's just a matter of either you don't have the evidence to support your claim or you lack the willingness to go about looking for it. Makes no difference to me personally, but you'd go a lot further and have a lot more weight behind you if you just put forth a little extra effort. Unsubstantiated opinion is just that.

I've said what I felt necessary. I'm leaving this alone from here.

Good luck to your Mavs in the playoffs.

[Daredevilish]

This idea that Booker has no “bag” of moves to create his own shot is easily the craziest take I’ve seen in this thread in the past two hours. And that’s saying something, because there have been some wild statements in this thread.

[YourCellarDoor]

PS: an example of why stats showing isn't the best.
I'm not sure how many points booker scores from 3 or from 2 or from three point line. But the point is:

Lebron's main strenght is attacking the basket and passing, Kawhi is lethal with midranges and bulldozing and using his hands to separate space. Embiid can get a foul at any time, as long as he get's the ball in the right place. That's why also Embiid isn't too reliable.
Giannis is incredibly difficult to stop when going full steam, unless you have the Miami wall. Curry doesn't even have a comparision, the guy is out of this world. Jokic can play bullyball against anyone and his touch is just about unparalleled and he's also godly playmaker. Durant can shot over anyone and has also shown that he can play with pressure and he's still so damn tall he can easily pass if double teamed. Derozan can get a midrange jumper anytime he wants (but fails to deliver under pressure). He's also muscular, savy and tall enough to cause trouble in the paint.

What does Booker have? Is he great at attacking the rim? No. Is he great midrange player? No. Can he dribble the ball really well? No. He's most famous for hitting jumpshots, hence Booker is just a jumpshooter. No back to back game, no fancy dribbles, no great playmaking. Is also undersized SG.

You can call me an idiot for saying Booker get's the most points from threes, but you failed to realize that that was not what I was even arguing.

And yes, the Suns are a better team than the Mavs. If they execute the same way they did in the regular season, they win the championship. But imo they won't. The pressure will be too high.

I think you need to watch these videos to understand how wrong you are about Booker. In fact you shouldn't even need a video to tell you that you're wrong about Booker not being a great midrange player. You might be the first person to say this, as most people label Booker as a midrange player who doesn't shoot a lot of 3s, and that's why he's not "efficient" in the eyes of TS%. It even talks about his post game, which you say he lacks.

Watch on YouTube

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about. you were asking what Booker's strength is. It's versatility. If you know what a 3-level scorer is, that's him.

I've watched this entire video. I'm not impressed. Look, I guess the difference between your point of view and mine is the basis point. I watch Luka play every day, I also have in my brain all the moves Kawhi used, I also like to watch Jokic play, Khris Middleton and Durant, Lebron, Kyrie, Derozan...

To me, in this video, Booker is just shooting over people majority of time, though he does create enough space. There weren't really a lot of instances of him playing with his back.

What I'm gonna say now will be blasphemous, but to me, watching Booker do precisely what he's doing in these videos is a disaster waiting to happen. Undersized SG shooting over taller people as his main weapon. That's precisely what I'm talking about what happens when his shots aren't falling. What would happen if Booker faced the Miami wall that Giannis did? The moment he would start his dance relatively close to the basket, there would come help defense trying to steal the ball. Or some taller player, like Adebayo would try to block his shot from his side. Middleton's shot won't be affected as much since he's much taller and more muscular. CP3 creates way more space than Booker does. I'm sorry, but to me, this approach will not win you a chamionship. Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have).

And since you're comparing with Luka here... It's also one reason why stats don't work. Luka is maximum threat, not just a triple threat or whatever threat. When he starts his "dance", he can bully you to the rim, he can blow by you to the rim, he can make pump fakes and get to the free throw line or just manipulate you into making a foul, he can pass the ball to the eventually open player on the 3 point line, he has a floater, he can pass a lob to Powell or just a bounce pass, he has great first step, he can't be too bothered with tall centers in the paint... Doncic has so many moves to beat you with, he's just deadly. When a person is defending Doncic, he has to be aware of all of the possibilities of what Doncic might do. Only Jokic is comparable to him in the middle game.

And well that's one of the reasons that stats don't work. You can show his %, that's a minuscule part of the whole story. Just like TS% is, when people try to compare players.

strong contender for the worst devin booker post i've read on any platform all year.

[Gimli]

PS: you can also check the entire NBA, I guess there's no team where the team's best player is an undersized SG shooting over taller people by first dribling in front of them in the middle area. And how accidental, when Booker didn't have such great teammates, his team was one of the worst in the nba.

[Daredevilish]

“What would Booker do if he faced the Miami wall?” Is an all-timer. Nobody would ever defend Booker like that, because it wouldn’t work. They defended Giannis like that because it was tailored to Giannis’s specific weaknesses. You defend Booker by hounding him on traps and switches, not by walling up.

[Gimli]

I think you need to watch these videos to understand how wrong you are about Booker. In fact you shouldn't even need a video to tell you that you're wrong about Booker not being a great midrange player. You might be the first person to say this, as most people label Booker as a midrange player who doesn't shoot a lot of 3s, and that's why he's not "efficient" in the eyes of TS%. It even talks about his post game, which you say he lacks.

Watch on YouTube

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about. you were asking what Booker's strength is. It's versatility. If you know what a 3-level scorer is, that's him.

I've watched this entire video. I'm not impressed. Look, I guess the difference between your point of view and mine is the basis point. I watch Luka play every day, I also have in my brain all the moves Kawhi used, I also like to watch Jokic play, Khris Middleton and Durant, Lebron, Kyrie, Derozan...

To me, in this video, Booker is just shooting over people majority of time, though he does create enough space. There weren't really a lot of instances of him playing with his back.

What I'm gonna say now will be blasphemous, but to me, watching Booker do precisely what he's doing in these videos is a disaster waiting to happen. Undersized SG shooting over taller people as his main weapon. That's precisely what I'm talking about what happens when his shots aren't falling. What would happen if Booker faced the Miami wall that Giannis did? The moment he would start his dance relatively close to the basket, there would come help defense trying to steal the ball. Or some taller player, like Adebayo would try to block his shot from his side. Middleton's shot won't be affected as much since he's much taller and more muscular. CP3 creates way more space than Booker does. I'm sorry, but to me, this approach will not win you a chamionship. Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have).

And since you're comparing with Luka here... It's also one reason why stats don't work. Luka is maximum threat, not just a triple threat or whatever threat. When he starts his "dance", he can bully you to the rim, he can blow by you to the rim, he can make pump fakes and get to the free throw line or just manipulate you into making a foul, he can pass the ball to the eventually open player on the 3 point line, he has a floater, he can pass a lob to Powell or just a bounce pass, he has great first step, he can't be too bothered with tall centers in the paint... Doncic has so many moves to beat you with, he's just deadly. When a person is defending Doncic, he has to be aware of all of the possibilities of what Doncic might do. Only Jokic is comparable to him in the middle game.

And well that's one of the reasons that stats don't work. You can show his %, that's a minuscule part of the whole story. Just like TS% is, when people try to compare players.

strong contender for the worst devin booker post i've read on any platform all year.

You can quote me back when Booker's jumpshooting won't work in the Finals and he will keep shooting them, which will result in his team's loss.

[YourCellarDoor]

I've watched this entire video. I'm not impressed. Look, I guess the difference between your point of view and mine is the basis point. I watch Luka play every day, I also have in my brain all the moves Kawhi used, I also like to watch Jokic play, Khris Middleton and Durant, Lebron, Kyrie, Derozan...

To me, in this video, Booker is just shooting over people majority of time, though he does create enough space. There weren't really a lot of instances of him playing with his back.

What I'm gonna say now will be blasphemous, but to me, watching Booker do precisely what he's doing in these videos is a disaster waiting to happen. Undersized SG shooting over taller people as his main weapon. That's precisely what I'm talking about what happens when his shots aren't falling. What would happen if Booker faced the Miami wall that Giannis did? The moment he would start his dance relatively close to the basket, there would come help defense trying to steal the ball. Or some taller player, like Adebayo would try to block his shot from his side. Middleton's shot won't be affected as much since he's much taller and more muscular. CP3 creates way more space than Booker does. I'm sorry, but to me, this approach will not win you a chamionship. Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have).

And since you're comparing with Luka here... It's also one reason why stats don't work. Luka is maximum threat, not just a triple threat or whatever threat. When he starts his "dance", he can bully you to the rim, he can blow by you to the rim, he can make pump fakes and get to the free throw line or just manipulate you into making a foul, he can pass the ball to the eventually open player on the 3 point line, he has a floater, he can pass a lob to Powell or just a bounce pass, he has great first step, he can't be too bothered with tall centers in the paint... Doncic has so many moves to beat you with, he's just deadly. When a person is defending Doncic, he has to be aware of all of the possibilities of what Doncic might do. Only Jokic is comparable to him in the middle game.

And well that's one of the reasons that stats don't work. You can show his %, that's a minuscule part of the whole story. Just like TS% is, when people try to compare players.

strong contender for the worst devin booker post i've read on any platform all year.

You can quote me back when Booker's jumpshooting won't work in the Finals and he will keep shooting them, which will result in his team's loss.

regardless of the eventual team outcome - it's just shallow, bad analysis that shows a lack of understanding of the sport.

[IamBBAnalysis]

The Suns had major injuries in the finals with CP3 playing with one arm, Booker with a broken nose, and Saric out. That is often how the playoffs work. Teams that can weather that storm and are a bit lucky are the winners. Giannis played one of the great series in all of basketball history. The Bucks won that championship legit and fair and square. However, the Suns did not choke.

They went just improved.

Not sure if you know because he only came out with it recently, but in the Finals something inside Gianni's knee was fully torn, doctors told him if he played in the Finals and had another injury he was done with basketball forever. Eventually he said that only in September the swelling on his knee fully went down. At that state where most people would cry themselves to sleep he went ahead and averaged 35/13/5 in that series. That's why I'm saying that is a major worry for the Suns, because you really did not come close to containing him even a little bit, honestly even the Nets did a better job. You have to rethink your defensive strategy from scratch if we end up playing again.

I understand you had injuries but just because players played it doesn't mean the other team didn't have injuries either. That was Gianni's knee 12 days before the Finals started:

Giannis is superhuman. Nobody else on earth could have done what he did, especially the closeout game. I don't think he would have done much better if he wasn't injured. He was that good.

And we did rethink our defense against him. that's why we got the deepest center rotation in the league now. You guys won't be seeing Kaminsky in the finals if we meet again, which is already going to be a major help on defense.

Giannis amazing but he can't be a one-man wrecking crew if you build a wall or double team him. He isn't Jordan or Lebron who will either score or make a play. Monty never really changed the defense. It was terrible coaching. 4 straight? The Bucks were not that much better than the Suns...

[Gimli]

“What would Booker do if he faced the Miami wall?” Is an all-timer. Nobody would ever defend Booker like that, because it wouldn’t work. They defended Giannis like that because it was tailored to Giannis’s specific weaknesses. You defend Booker by hounding him on traps and switches, not by walling up.

Eh, god forbid I don't explain something very very very precisely. In order for Miami wall to work they had to concentrate on Giannis very hard. And their wall trapping started in the middle post. I guess, it had to, because if you start in the low post it will be too slow and will result in a foul. Which means all the players were ready to affect the middle post area in some way, pretty much. Which means when Booker starts dribbling near the middle area, or a bit too far from the 3 point line, the players will also be affected. The moment he starts dribbling too much to the left or too much to the right, Butler or Tucker or Lowry or Adebayo (hm, this are this year's players) will be ready to double team him. And Booker is not nearly good enough to quickly pass the ball.

The Miami wall example is one when players are ready to jump into the paint or close to it, the moment a player tries to enter it. Except that Miami wall was in the low post, but can be adjusted to happen also a bit more to the middle post, but it won't be a wall really. I could use the Clippers defense on Doncic last year, but probably not too many of you remember it. But as some point it wasn't really possible for Doncic to play 1 vs 1 in the middle area, unless he came up with some unbeliavable footwork, on the level of Curry running through million screens. He got double teamed or he got Kawhi on himself, which is unplayable. Or he was partialy double teamed, the moment he passed, the double team was gone like it wasn't even there. I don't know how they did it. But maybe I'm just wrong, maybe that's happened with France vs Slovenia and I've mixed things up.

[Eric Millegan]

I think the Suns will win the title this year. That said, the last 4 seasons, the team with the best record in the NBA didn’t even reach the Finals.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.

Damn, you sound pretty convinced. Your whole strategy is throw the ball to Doncic and get out of the way? And your alternate strategy is to outrun the Suns?

I suppose it could work, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Yeah, it's very primitive offense, but that's what the Mavs do basically the entire time. Give the ball to Doncic.
Mavs only have 5 plays, basically.

1) Screen for Doncic.
2) Doncic 1 vs 1.
3) Doncic get's the ball in the lows post.
3) Brunsons 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Brunson shooting himself).
4) Dwinddle 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Dwinddle shooting himself).

It's not a good offense, but that's what mavs run. It's also very difficult to be stopped.

But that's not the point. All I'm saying is suns don't have anyone that could really attack the paint when necessary. Booker hits way too many threes over defender's hands. There will come a time when he stops making them. Or when CP3 won't be able to just shoot over taller defenders. Bucks have Giannis, Clippers have Kawhi, Lakers have Lebron, Philly has Embiid, Miami Adebayo... If you think it's ridiculous, fine, but in the last 20 years each team have some great players who could score in the paint (except I guess Detroit), if the Suns win they'll be the first that won't have anyone. Take that for your "points in the paint stats".

The Suns are ALWAYS attacking the paint...I think you just don't understand pick and roll basketball. With the pick and roll the defense has to make a decision. Usually the defense gives up the mid range jump shot against the Suns. They take it. If the defense is different they kick it to shooters, hit the pick and roll man, hit a cutter, or take it to the hoop. On kick outs often Bridges, Cam Johnson, Booker, etc pump fake and drive it to the hoop on close outs. They get in the paint and score inside a lot. They just happen to have the perfect team that is just as good and happy to take anything the defense gives them. They are the best in the league at it by a LARGE margin.

They can and do post up as needed. Recently when they played Golden State and the Warriors tried to play small and a switching defense the Suns went inside to Ayton almost every play. He just scored at will until they stopped. There have been games where teams try to take the ball out of the hands of Booker or Paul and other guys like Johnson and Bridges are very happy penetrating or shooting mid range.

The team is just a lot more skilled top to bottom than other teams. That being said, VERY physical defense that is allowed to be physical can throw off any offense. That is when players have to be mentally and physically tough. That is playoff basketball. Besides the poor defense against Giannis the other big issue for the Suns against the Bucks was Holiday on Chris Paul. Paul disppeared when it mattered in crunch time...some due to the physical defense and some due to maybe tiredness or injuries. I'm not sure why people don't talk about this more? HIs #'s were fine but unlike all season he just didn't make the plays when it mattered...and his assists were just not there.

[Slim Charless]

PS: you can also check the entire NBA, I guess there's no team where the team's best player is an undersized SG shooting over taller people by first dribling in front of them in the middle area. And how accidental, when Booker didn't have such great teammates, his team was one of the worst in the nba.

You never made an accurate point about your takes and you continue to post bad takes here. News flash: the Suns were tanking those years and had one of the youngest teams in the league. Along with terrible coaching. Good players and good coaching help move things along.

Speaking of which, why can't Luka get out of the 1st round? Don't blame it on Kawhi. If Luka is truly so great he should be able to see the 2nd round at least.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Yeah, I've watched the game against Philly...just passing the ball all the time, making a bunch of threes and Booker making a layup or too. That's not getting to the basket gameplan. I guess suns should know what it means to have a player going at the basket all the time or when necessary, after all, the Bucks made a back door sweep to them, with Giannis making the most damage from attacking the paint, but I guess it just went past them. Or maybe they're just too sensitive.

Just deal with, CP3 is a midrange jump shooter, Booker couldn't do anything in the past few years before the bubble, and for Ayton some suns fans people were even questioning if he isn't too expensive to extend. Ayton is a finesse player, not somehow who can bang down low.

The suns make a bunch of layups due to their good offense of passing all the time. But since I've listed all the previous champions, you need someone who can go to the basket 1 vs 1 in the crunch time. Suns have no one like that. Just like the Hawks didn't in their great season, as far as I can remember.

Suns win majority of their games by just playing very good offense and very good defense for 48 minutes, without making any mistakes. That led you to 2-0 lead against the Bucks, until they figured you out and then you lost 4-0. And which of the great teams did you even beat? None. Grizzlies 4-1 was easy, Jazz 4-2 should be 4-1, Clippers vs Suns should be 4-1 or 4-0. And they you faced the only partially great team and you got backdoor swept. And now you're crying why you're labeled you a good team.

Booker still hasn't proven that his some great player, he's reputation from few years ago that he can't get phx anywhere is still very much relevant.

You not thinking booker is a great player is a testament to how little you understand about basketball.

Booker's accomplishments.

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)

He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?

No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.

Did you have fun posting all that? Correct, Booker is a great player. Just read that and start over. He clearly is. Is he top 3? No. But he's capable of playing on that level on certain nights. Sounds like just bias. He's really have a great season this year.

[spanishninja]

Not sure if you know because he only came out with it recently, but in the Finals something inside Gianni's knee was fully torn, doctors told him if he played in the Finals and had another injury he was done with basketball forever. Eventually he said that only in September the swelling on his knee fully went down. At that state where most people would cry themselves to sleep he went ahead and averaged 35/13/5 in that series. That's why I'm saying that is a major worry for the Suns, because you really did not come close to containing him even a little bit, honestly even the Nets did a better job. You have to rethink your defensive strategy from scratch if we end up playing again.

I understand you had injuries but just because players played it doesn't mean the other team didn't have injuries either. That was Gianni's knee 12 days before the Finals started:

Giannis is superhuman. Nobody else on earth could have done what he did, especially the closeout game. I don't think he would have done much better if he wasn't injured. He was that good.

And we did rethink our defense against him. that's why we got the deepest center rotation in the league now. You guys won't be seeing Kaminsky in the finals if we meet again, which is already going to be a major help on defense.

Giannis amazing but he can't be a one-man wrecking crew if you build a wall or double team him. He isn't Jordan or Lebron who will either score or make a play. Monty never really changed the defense. It was terrible coaching. 4 straight? The Bucks were not that much better than the Suns...

we already know that about building a wall. Ayton was in foul trouble and we literally had no bigs aside from Kaminsky after Saric went down. Hence McGee and Biyombo this year.

[Slim Charless]

You not thinking booker is a great player is a testament to how little you understand about basketball.

Booker's accomplishments.

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)

He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?

No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.

Did you have fun posting all that? Correct, Booker is a great player. Just read that and start over. He clearly is. Is he top 3? No. But he's capable of playing on that level on certain nights. Sounds like just bias. He's really have a great season this year.

Booker is gonna make 1st team all NBA this season and likely be top 4 MVP candidate.

[Gimli]

strong contender for the worst devin booker post i've read on any platform all year.

You can quote me back when Booker's jumpshooting won't work in the Finals and he will keep shooting them, which will result in his team's loss.

regardless of the eventual team outcome - it's just shallow, bad analysis that shows a lack of understanding of the sport.

Sure. There's been a million people say jumpshooting doesn't work, but when I say that specifically against Booker, it's "the worst devin booker post ever". It's pretty much the same thing. I mean look, the Bucks went on 4-0 to close the suns. Surely the suns had enough offense to win at least one game, right? Surely their team's best player should earn one win by himself?

But let's check his stats, since you're so willing to talk about stats...
28.1666666667 points per game
0.45% for 2
0.268 for 3....
Amazing, truly reliable jumpshooter...

If we check only the last 4 games...
1) 3/14 for 2... 1/7 for 3
2) 17/28 for 2... solid 0/3 for 3
3)17/33 for 2... solid 2/4 for 3
4) 8 / 22... 0/7 for 3...

Free throw shooting was satisfying, but you don't win playoffs on hitting a few free throws.
So, all in all, not good numbers for the last 4 games, right? I guess jumpshooting doesn't work, when you face a proper defense and proper attack. Which was the only time for the Suns last year, that it actually happened.

Now the burden of proof is back to you, to show I don't know, that Booker did the best against all odds against a mighty superteam with the conspiracy of the refs. Or try to find some other series against a similar level difficult opponent, when Booker just demolished the other team.

PS: if you come back to me with Doncic, I've got no idea what his % are, but the guy played against Kawhi + PG13 + Batum + Beverly + Mann + Morris... First find me a player that faced such defense, than we can talk stats. Which are often meaningless anyway.

[SkyBill40]

Booker's accomplishments.

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)

He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?

No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.

Did you have fun posting all that? Correct, Booker is a great player. Just read that and start over. He clearly is. Is he top 3? No. But he's capable of playing on that level on certain nights. Sounds like just bias. He's really have a great season this year.

Booker is gonna make 1st team all NBA this season and likely be top 4 MVP candidate.

I don't know about that. He's put forth a hell of a season for sure, but I just don't see him cracking the top 5 for league MVP. Even with regard to All-NBA, I think he'll be fortunate to get a look on the second team.

[Boselecta]

If the suns are the favorite the league is truly wide open this year. There good but far from unbeatable.

[spanishninja]

PS: an example of why stats showing isn't the best.
I'm not sure how many points booker scores from 3 or from 2 or from three point line. But the point is:

Lebron's main strenght is attacking the basket and passing, Kawhi is lethal with midranges and bulldozing and using his hands to separate space. Embiid can get a foul at any time, as long as he get's the ball in the right place. That's why also Embiid isn't too reliable.
Giannis is incredibly difficult to stop when going full steam, unless you have the Miami wall. Curry doesn't even have a comparision, the guy is out of this world. Jokic can play bullyball against anyone and his touch is just about unparalleled and he's also godly playmaker. Durant can shot over anyone and has also shown that he can play with pressure and he's still so damn tall he can easily pass if double teamed. Derozan can get a midrange jumper anytime he wants (but fails to deliver under pressure). He's also muscular, savy and tall enough to cause trouble in the paint.

What does Booker have? Is he great at attacking the rim? No. Is he great midrange player? No. Can he dribble the ball really well? No. He's most famous for hitting jumpshots, hence Booker is just a jumpshooter. No back to back game, no fancy dribbles, no great playmaking. Is also undersized SG.

You can call me an idiot for saying Booker get's the most points from threes, but you failed to realize that that was not what I was even arguing.

And yes, the Suns are a better team than the Mavs. If they execute the same way they did in the regular season, they win the championship. But imo they won't. The pressure will be too high.

I think you need to watch these videos to understand how wrong you are about Booker. In fact you shouldn't even need a video to tell you that you're wrong about Booker not being a great midrange player. You might be the first person to say this, as most people label Booker as a midrange player who doesn't shoot a lot of 3s, and that's why he's not "efficient" in the eyes of TS%. It even talks about his post game, which you say he lacks.

Watch on YouTube

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about. you were asking what Booker's strength is. It's versatility. If you know what a 3-level scorer is, that's him.

I've watched this entire video. I'm not impressed. Look, I guess the difference between your point of view and mine is the basis point. I watch Luka play every day, I also have in my brain all the moves Kawhi used, I also like to watch Jokic play, Khris Middleton and Durant, Lebron, Kyrie, Derozan...

To me, in this video, Booker is just shooting over people majority of time, though he does create enough space. There weren't really a lot of instances of him playing with his back.

What I'm gonna say now will be blasphemous, but to me, watching Booker do precisely what he's doing in these videos is a disaster waiting to happen. Undersized SG shooting over taller people as his main weapon. That's precisely what I'm talking about what happens when his shots aren't falling. What would happen if Booker faced the Miami wall that Giannis did? The moment he would start his dance relatively close to the basket, there would come help defense trying to steal the ball. Or some taller player, like Adebayo would try to block his shot from his side. Middleton's shot won't be affected as much since he's much taller and more muscular. CP3 creates way more space than Booker does. I'm sorry, but to me, this approach will not win you a chamionship. Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have).

And since you're comparing with Luka here... It's also one reason why stats don't work. Luka is maximum threat, not just a triple threat or whatever threat. When he starts his "dance", he can bully you to the rim, he can blow by you to the rim, he can make pump fakes and get to the free throw line or just manipulate you into making a foul, he can pass the ball to the eventually open player on the 3 point line, he has a floater, he can pass a lob to Powell or just a bounce pass, he has great first step, he can't be too bothered with tall centers in the paint... Doncic has so many moves to beat you with, he's just deadly. When a person is defending Doncic, he has to be aware of all of the possibilities of what Doncic might do. Only Jokic is comparable to him in the middle game.

And well that's one of the reasons that stats don't work. You can show his %, that's a minuscule part of the whole story. Just like TS% is, when people try to compare players.

the only thing I agree with you on is that TS% doesn't tell the whole story, which is why I showed you the shooting numbers from every area of the court.

"Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have)."

wait, didn't you say earlier that Booker doesn't have a midrange game and shoots a lot of threes? you just contradicted yourself yet again.

this unironic trolling must end man.

[IamBBAnalysis]

He is a perennial all star player that just turned 25, made the finals in his first playoff appearance, is the leading scorer on the team with the best record in the nba. You dont think multiple time all stars that arent even in their prime yet are good players? Booker is literally in the running for best SG in the league.

Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.

Luka has done nothing either so far in the league, despite having a surrounding cast way better than the G-league guys Booker had in his first 4 years. Maybe focus on getting out of the first round this season before talking about knocking off the Suns.

And competing against a top 5 point guard in history for best player on the team is really nothing to complain about.

This is probably the best point right here. We hear a lot about Doncic but he hasn't done anything either and his team is never top 4. Booker literally had the worst basketball players of any team in a decade on his team starting. Zero talent.