Barkley "You don't join no 73 win team and talk about driving the Bus"

[JRoy]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

lebron didn't do what KD did lol

LeBron somehow how made it work with only 2 additional top 10 players.

LeBron James, always the underdog.

[bisme37]

This is another example of me having no idea what these dudes are even talking about, or why.

[Slacktard]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

Miami won that championship *5* years before LeBron went there and the only players left from that team was Wade & Haslem.

Completely different from joining the pretty much entire GSW roster of a 73 win team that won a championship two years before and got to the finals and lost in 7 games a month or two before Durant goes over to them

[Sprewell4Three]

Kenny doesn't seem all too pleased by the bus driver reference.

That was the best part of this real talk humorous statement. Because Kenny was legit salty for rest of the long ass show. Kenny was legit avoiding to look at or talk much to Chuck after. Except for trying a get swept at 1st round joke at Chuck that landed poorly.

In a panel that includes Shaq, you have to a special kind of mental midget to be the one that's the most sensitivity easily bruised ego clown up there lol

Kenny consistently has the worst takes on a show which has Shaq on it smh.

No he does not. I don’t understand this hate for Kenny. He’s 10x better then anything ESPN has. He does know the game. Shaq is there for comic relief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ReddoverKobe]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

lebron didn't do what KD did lol

LeBron somehow how made it work with only 2 additional top 10 players.

LeBron James, always the underdog.

I mean he has been in most of the finals hes played. But I see you moved to this nonsense rather then pretend what him and KD did was even close lol

[Lunartic]

Charles telling it like it is
All KD has to do is just play 75% of his ability and this series looks much different, even if he loses to a good Celtics team that's fine.
This trash version of KD makes people question his entire legacy.

Why does this have to be a case of Kevin Durant playing like trash? You're saying all he has to do is play 75% of his ability, how do you know that isn't already happening?

People do this all the time with star players and I don't understand why. They did the same thing with LeBron back in 2011, that he just choked and collapsed under pressure. Why does it always come down to that? Because the guy is so good that there's no possible way opposing teams can slow them down, let alone lock them down? That's a terrible mindset to have. How can you possibly expect to win anything if you're already giving up on the possibility of slowing down the opposing teams best player?

And it's even worse here because the performance in question couldn't be more obvious. Durant isn't playing any worse than he normally was. He's not out there missing open looks on a consistent basis. He's not a step slower than he used to be. His decision making isn't any worse than it is now (not saying he was ever bad in that regard, just trying to make a point). He's the same player that he was last year. The difference here is that an elite perimeter defender with the physical capabilities to guard Durant is actually taking on the challenge of defending him. And the results speak for themselves. And if Tatum isn't the one guarding him, he has Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart (who just won DPOY) and now Rob Williams to deal with, as well as a few others.

In other words, this is not a trash version of KD. This is KD going up against a team we haven't seen in a while: one that is taking the art of defense very seriously again, has multiple versatile defensive wings capable of guarding a multitude of players, and is both well coached and well prepared for the challenge ahead of them.

We need to stop ignoring the greatness of other teams because it's more convenient to say "this star player is playing like ****". It not only discredits the work they are putting in, but it's completely ignoring what's happening on the basketball court and that just isn't okay.

Sample size.

KD has played for many years and has played against top tier defenders. He's a GOAT level scorer and he's barely even taking shots, he's losing the ball without even being pressured, he's being stripped, he's gunshy.

KD has scored on Iggy, Lebron, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Tony Allen, Ron Arrest, Tim Duncan, the list is endless. He can score on anyone yet this series he's playing completely unlike himself.

That's not to say the Celtics aren't playing great defense on him and Kyrie, they are. Two things can be true at once.

Same for the Lebron situation, he was clearly mentally shook in 2011. The Mavs didn't lock him down, he refused to even put up shots. It was mental.

Unless KD has an undisclosed injury, a large part of this is mental unless you think KD normally takes 12 shots a game in the playoffs.

[mastermixer]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

The first year he got to Miami he took a backseat role to Wade and let Wade lead the team and they lost in the Finals.

Wade came to him and said, you have to lead this team, it's your team, we can't win it all if you don't take over.

I hate LeBron but the years they won, it was because he was the BUS DRIVER.

[Lunartic]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

lebron didn't do what KD did lol

LeBron somehow how made it work with only 2 additional top 10 players.

LeBron James, always the underdog.

The only difference between KD and Lebron is that Lebron created a superteam whereas KD joined a near superteam.
Not a significant difference either way and the only people that would argue otherwise are Bron fans.

[Kobe187]

No one man drives the bus in today’s NBA, it’s a plane you need at least 2 pilots, the rest are passengers giving instructions and help.

[NDaATL]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

lebron didn't do what KD did lol

Agreed that KD's was probably worse.

But LeBron created a new super team with another top 5 player and a top 20 player at the time. It would be like Giannis and AD/KAT going to join Luka in Dallas or something. Then a bunch of ringchaser role players coming to join too. It was ABSOLUTELY a superteam that was created behind closed doors. And they lost to Dallas largely because LeBron folded.

[Down3223]

lebron didn't do what KD did lol

LeBron somehow how made it work with only 2 additional top 10 players.

LeBron James, always the underdog.

The only difference between KD and Lebron is that Lebron created a superteam whereas KD joined a near superteam.
Not a significant difference either way and the only people that would argue otherwise are Bron fans.

The difference is:

Lebron WAS the system in Miami after Dwade started falling off due to injury after their first year together. Lebron was asked to score, rebound, get people easy shots and guard all positions when needed. lebron was the swiss army knife for the heat in a way that KD has never been called upon to do until RIGHT NOW on the Nets.

Curry was ALREADY the system for the Warriors


all KD had to do on the Warriors was run to an open spot (while curry got all the defensive attention) and score on isos

[JRoy]

LeBron somehow how made it work with only 2 additional top 10 players.

LeBron James, always the underdog.

The only difference between KD and Lebron is that Lebron created a superteam whereas KD joined a near superteam.
Not a significant difference either way and the only people that would argue otherwise are Bron fans.

The difference is:

Lebron WAS the system in Miami after Dwade started falling off dude to injury after their first year together. Lebron was asked to score, rebound, get people easy shots and guard all positions when needed. lebron was the swiss army knife for the heat in a way that KD has never been called upon to do until RIGHT NOW on the Nets.

Curry was ALREADY the system for the Warriors


all KD had to do on the Warriors was run to an open spot (while curry got all the defensive attention) and score on isos

Only 2 Other All nba guys in their prime?


What a hero.

[Mickey8]

While I don't like super teams and I am not Kevin Durant fan , that 73 wins team didn't win the championship and Durant contributed a lot in GS title runs . Barkley is just salty.

[Mickey8]

So was Lebron a bus rider as well when he joined the Miami Heat, joining a player who had already drove his bus to a championship already?

Miami won that championship *5* years before LeBron went there and the only players left from that team was Wade & Haslem.

Completely different from joining the pretty much entire GSW roster of a 73 win team that won a championship two years before and got to the finals and lost in 7 games a month or two before Durant goes over to them

They formed super team, Lebron and Wade were top players in the league at that period , Bosh was top 15 player. Plus addition of Ray Allen. Its a pretty much the same situation.

[Down3223]

The only difference between KD and Lebron is that Lebron created a superteam whereas KD joined a near superteam.
Not a significant difference either way and the only people that would argue otherwise are Bron fans.

The difference is:

Lebron WAS the system in Miami after Dwade started falling off dude to injury after their first year together. Lebron was asked to score, rebound, get people easy shots and guard all positions when needed. lebron was the swiss army knife for the heat in a way that KD has never been called upon to do until RIGHT NOW on the Nets.

Curry was ALREADY the system for the Warriors


all KD had to do on the Warriors was run to an open spot (while curry got all the defensive attention) and score on isos

Only 2 Other All nba guys in their prime?


What a hero.

Wade wasn't in his prime after 2011:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1743142-timeline-of-dwyane-wades-lengthy-injury-history

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-heat-g-dwyane-wade-had-left-knee-drained-before-game-3/





and Bosh was never a winner like that

[celticfan42487]

While I don't like super teams and I am not Kevin Durant fan , that 73 wins team didn't win the championship and Durant contributed a lot in GS title runs . Barkley is just salty.

Well that's because Durant was on the team and it was easy mode. They win the same without him on it and a replacement player.

[TheLand13]

Charles telling it like it is
All KD has to do is just play 75% of his ability and this series looks much different, even if he loses to a good Celtics team that's fine.
This trash version of KD makes people question his entire legacy.

Why does this have to be a case of Kevin Durant playing like trash? You're saying all he has to do is play 75% of his ability, how do you know that isn't already happening?

People do this all the time with star players and I don't understand why. They did the same thing with LeBron back in 2011, that he just choked and collapsed under pressure. Why does it always come down to that? Because the guy is so good that there's no possible way opposing teams can slow them down, let alone lock them down? That's a terrible mindset to have. How can you possibly expect to win anything if you're already giving up on the possibility of slowing down the opposing teams best player?

And it's even worse here because the performance in question couldn't be more obvious. Durant isn't playing any worse than he normally was. He's not out there missing open looks on a consistent basis. He's not a step slower than he used to be. His decision making isn't any worse than it is now (not saying he was ever bad in that regard, just trying to make a point). He's the same player that he was last year. The difference here is that an elite perimeter defender with the physical capabilities to guard Durant is actually taking on the challenge of defending him. And the results speak for themselves. And if Tatum isn't the one guarding him, he has Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart (who just won DPOY) and now Rob Williams to deal with, as well as a few others.

In other words, this is not a trash version of KD. This is KD going up against a team we haven't seen in a while: one that is taking the art of defense very seriously again, has multiple versatile defensive wings capable of guarding a multitude of players, and is both well coached and well prepared for the challenge ahead of them.

We need to stop ignoring the greatness of other teams because it's more convenient to say "this star player is playing like ****". It not only discredits the work they are putting in, but it's completely ignoring what's happening on the basketball court and that just isn't okay.

Sample size.

KD has played for many years and has played against top tier defenders. He's a GOAT level scorer and he's barely even taking shots, he's losing the ball without even being pressured, he's being stripped, he's gunshy.

KD has scored on Iggy, Lebron, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Tony Allen, Ron Arrest, Tim Duncan, the list is endless. He can score on anyone yet this series he's playing completely unlike himself.

That's not to say the Celtics aren't playing great defense on him and Kyrie, they are. Two things can be true at once.

Same for the Lebron situation, he was clearly mentally shook in 2011. The Mavs didn't lock him down, he refused to even put up shots. It was mental.

Unless KD has an undisclosed injury, a large part of this is mental unless you think KD normally takes 12 shots a game in the playoffs.

He barely took shots for one game, and the entire reason he did that was because he was having difficulty dealing with the Celtics defense so he attempted to get other teammates involved. He straight up stated that himself. He just had 20 free throws in game 2, so you can't say he wasn't attacking before game 3.

Yes, Durant has scored on those guys. But of those teams, how many of them had the amount of versatile defenders capable of giving Durant fits like the Celtics do? How many of them were as elite defensively as a team? And how many of those instances did Durant do that while playing with the current team that he has now? Things were much different with what he had surrounding him in OKC and GS. Teams had to plan differently. Hell, even that isn't entirely accurate. We saw the 73 win warriors have success limiting Durant and they, like the current Celtics, were a versatile team stockpiled with multiple elite defensive players. The Celtics clearly have a goal in mind here with this series. Let Smart and Tatum do their thing on Irving and Durant. If they try switching, let them, good luck with the alternatives. And it's working. There's a reason Brooklyn's role players are actually playing a lot better than anyone expected. They are not receiving nearly the same amount of attention and focus that Durant and Irving are. Apart from one great game from Irving where he was hitting just about everything he shot (except for when he was defended by Smart), they have both struggled immensely throughout this series.

And I simply refuse to believe that what happened to LeBron in 2011 was mental. Yeah, you could argue that on defense because he was just as awful at that end and LeBron when focused on that end isn't getting lit up by Jason Terry. But on offense? That Dallas Mavericks team was perfectly built to handle LeBron. Multiple defenders who were lengthy and clogged up driving lines, and to top it off, a truly elite rim protecting seven foot big in Tyson Chandler who is incredibly mobile locking down the paint. If LeBron's jumper was falling, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But the simple fact of the matter is, LeBron's jumper wasn't finding the mark in that series so he was basically screwed at that end. I guess you could argue that part is mental, but that's pushing it imo.

Now yes, both instances can be true. A player can be struggling while the other team is playing great defense. That's totally fine. But if that's the case, then tell me what parts of Durant's game is he struggling with that he's normally a lot better with against any regular team? Tell me what he's doing differently here that he normally doesn't do against other teams that he dominates? At least with the LeBron example, you have the fact that LeBron's jump shot wasn't falling so that's a legitimate argument that can be made. If the evidence is there to suggest that Durant is playing a completely different kind of game in this series than what he usually does and that's a factor in his struggles from the field, then the point is legitimate and Durant is in fact not playing at 100% of his capabilities. But you'd have to prove that, without a doubt, it has nothing to do with the Celtics defense and how they're playing against him and that this is just a case of Durant not being there mentally. And as far as I'm concerned, based on what I've seen in these three games, there is nothing to suggest that is the case here. Durant's shots are being heavily contested, he's being met at the rim almost every time he attacks it, unless he is out by the logo he's not being given a chance to breath.

If I'm missing something here, please do point it out.

[Dadouv47]

KD is a top 10 player ever but he never played well in the playoffs under a lot of pressure (well last season against the bucks was the exception).
I get that we missed some key pieces in OKC to win a championship (and got bad luck with injuries) but if KD played in the playoffs at the same level as RS, we probably would have won a title.

[WestGOAT]

Of all people Chuck should know better than be obsessed about winning a NBA title as an "alpha". It's a damn team game, so sick on this singular focus on individual players.

[tsherkin]

Of all people Chuck should know better than be obsessed about winning a NBA title as an "alpha". It's a damn team game, so sick on this singular focus on individual players.

It is frustrating to me. I do understand that at some point when you have such a large body of players who did impressive things in the RS, you need to start adding in extra filters. So the origin of that aspect makes some sense, and of course early mentalities and misunderstanding perpetuated over the eras and among casual fans, impact of certain successful players and all that work into the equation. But it can be damnably frustrating when people listen to folks like SAS or Barkley and never think or look deeper or what have you.

There is a degree of truth to the relative value of a ring, of course. Mitch Richmond's ring isn't as valuable as a ring won as a #1 guy, for sure. And when we speak of Scottie's rings, we don't necessarily lend them the same weight as Jordan's, understanding around whom the team was built. But then with someone like Kobe, the dialog shifts a little bit, particularly in retrospect after he proved that he could be the #1 guy and still win a ring, so we tend to treat his rings with Shaq the same as anyone else's primary rings. It's a shifting morass of subjectivity in the end.