migya wrote:70sFan wrote:TrueLAfan wrote:He’s arguably in the set of players in that 7-14 group, more often placed 15-25. I’ve got him around #20. Great player.
I’ve said this several times in different threads. Moses was/is, in many ways, the greatest role player of all time. You couldn’t run an offense through him. He was not a great outlet passer. He rarely moved out of the key to double, or defend perimeter shooters (one reason why Jack Sikma was a super nemesis for Moses). He was a poor ballhandler and didn't have the greatest hands when it came to catching passes. But what he did was both simple and staggeringly effective. He was the ultimate garbage man. He was an amazing offensive rebounder and got a ton of points there. He often got fouled down there as well, resulting in lots and lots of free throws—and he was an excellent FT shooter for a big man. As long as he didn’t put the ball on the court often or much, he had a nice spin move and pretty good drop step down low (which drew more fouls)—and since he was down low all the time, it was that much more effective. I don’t buy the strength argument of Moses; I think Moses was simply relentless. As his motor wore down in the mid-80s, his value dropped—but he’d had a ton of great years before that. He cleaned the boards and got a ton of points on high efficiency and you didn't need to do a damn thing as a team for that to happen.
But it’s hard to build a team around a guy like that. Yes, Houston made a finals with Moses in the pivot—but Houston was, by and large, a mediocre, sometimes underperforming team. You had to build a team around Moses as opposed to with him. The Rockets never really got that. The Sixers were the ultimate team for him; they were a complete team when Moses got on board. Their outstanding team defense allowed Moses to stay down low; the peripheral ball movement and shooting made his cleanup job more efficient and easier. Like I said, he was the ultimate role player—and plenty valuable.
I think you underrate Moses self-creation ability a little bit here. I wouldn't agree that Moses was the garbage man, you can't score 30+ppg this way. I actually tracked a lot of Moses games last year and he scored around 6-7 ppg from putbacks, which is absurdly high but only around 25% of his total points.
You also sell his low post repertoire short - he had much more than just a dropstep. He mastered the fadeaway to the baseline, but he could make it from either shoulder. He could also attack you from faceup position and his handles weren't that horrible - he could beat your center off the dribble just fine.
One of the fastest Centers and took it to the basket nett than most star bigs. People need to watch games of him and they'll see how hard to stop he was.
I don't think he was one of the fastest, but he had very quick first step. Not Admiral-esque, but very deceptive. He had a decent enough jumpshot from midrange to make sagging defenders pay and when they start coming at him, he could beat them off the dribble. It was consistent patters against slower defenders like Eaton, older Gilmore or Donaldson. The ones he couldn't bully inside.
He had more in his game than just a bully ball and putbacks
