This should be the end of the Tatum and Brown era

[CelticsPride18]

Jimmy Butler can actually dribble the ball and drive past defenders. Something the Jays **** suck at.

[10yearWindow]

the thing with joe that gets me is the times at which he goes to or goes away from stuff. It’s just odd. Last night he’s subbing Tatum out at the 6 min mark like it’s a game in January

[rd26]

There are 3 huge problems with the Jays imo:

1) They prefer playing at completely different speeds. Browns best attributes are his speed and burst. The faster the pace and the better the ball movement, the more valuable he gets.

Tatum prefers to play at the speed of running molasses. I don't think it's his best game, but we long ago gave him the keys, and its obvious thats his preferred tempo.

Early in the year, we were constantly pushing the pace and JT was busting his ass off ball. We got away from both, and we haven't looked like a championship caliber team since.

2) In the clutch we just suck. If we are ahead, JT takes the air out of the ball, JB stands in the corner and we play 100% not to lose.

If we are behind, JB is usually flyng up the court jacking tough 3s.

I've lost count of the close games were pissed down our legs late.

3) Neither guy can lead this team. JT just doesn't have that personality, he can be an all time great, but he's built more like Duncan or Kareem. He's never going to be a Larry Bird type alpha.

Brown just isn't disciped enough to take on that role, and Smart isn't good enough.

This team needs a coach who is the unquestioned leader of the team. Find that guy and the Jays are probably good enough to hang a banner. Otherwise shuffle the deck chairs all you want, I don't think it matters.

[fallguy]

What are you going to get for Brown? Trade him to Portland?

I don’t know. I would aerialist consider anything that balances the roster. To me, trading for KAT is the answer. But we’ll see. Team also needs to get back to the defensive


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Would love that. Have wanted this for a few years now, up until recently due to KAT being hurt a lot of late.

KAT has a lower BBIQ than Jaylen.

[return2glory]

What are you going to get for Brown? Trade him to Portland?

I don’t know. I would aerialist consider anything that balances the roster. To me, trading for KAT is the answer. But we’ll see. Team also needs to get back to the defensive


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Would love that. Have wanted this for a few years now, up until recently due to KAT being hurt a lot of late.

KAT has a lower BBIQ than Jaylen.

I don't think that's possible. But I haven't watched KAT too close. But he is more physical and a better fit for this team. But again, not my top option due to his recent injuries.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Talent is only good if it’s used right. Tatum snd brown don’t play off of one another and they don’t really play together. Other than shooting 3’s this team doesnt have any other way to score. They don’t run the floor snd they don’t post up. They aren’t tough and they fold in close games. Smart continues to make bonehead plays as does brown. I think you have to change the core. I doubt they trade tatum or brown so smart is the logical guy. Al makes way too much and has been a dud so you have to do something there. And joe has to go; the team quit on him

Agree this team is way too reliant on 3's. Also, some on this team constantly complain to the refs. Altogether, a culture and coaching change are needed.

Coach Joe obviously needs to get fired asap and Smart and Grant Williams should be dealt.

[Bostondave]

Hell I'll say it. I've said it before and I'll stand on it. If it were me I'd roll with Brown and move Tatum. Sacrilege I know. But that's what I see. Brown has more heart and more smarts. Not much more but Tatum has close to zero BBIQ. Give me Brown in the foxhole.

[return2glory]

Hell I'll say it. I've said it before and I'll stand on it. If it were me I'd roll with Brown and move Tatum. Sacrilege I know. But that's what I see. Brown has more heart and more smarts. Not much more but Tatum has close to zero BBIQ. Give me Brown in the foxhole.

If Tatum has very low BBIQ, then Brown is in the negatives.

Where is Brown's heart in this series? Caleb Martin is outplaying Brown, easily.

[HiLo76]

The greats of the past had a very simple method to counter a potential blow out... when the shots weren't falling they would drive to the hole, make a bucket while at the same time creating a foul for the other team's best player. MJ did this all the time. LeBron and Kobe did this in their primes.. why doesn't Tatum do this?

[Bostondave]

I'll stand on what I say. Tatum has more overall talent but hasn't figured out how to be consistent. Besides in that foxhole I talked about I'd be too worried Tatum would start crying about those meanies shooting at us. I know Brown would have the marbles to suck it up and just shoot back and **** all the crying and whining.

[JR Hawks]

Don't break up the Jay's without first getting rid of Smart and replacing him with a true point guard that can provide much needed on court leadership.

Smart has failed as a point guard.....he still wants to be an inefficient scorer and he constantly slows down the offense, forcing the team to play iso ball against set defenses.

I think the problem is that you want your super max players to have the ball and to be able to dribble in traffic and pass out of double teams. You don't want a true point guard taking that ball away.

We want ball movement, not iso ball. Tatum and Brown will get better shots that way.

Smart has failed miserably at making this happen, partly because he's just not a floor general and partly because he's too worried about getting his own shots.

[celticfan42487]

Don't break up the Jay's without first getting rid of Smart and replacing him with a true point guard that can provide much needed on court leadership.

Smart has failed as a point guard.....he still wants to be an inefficient scorer and he constantly slows down the offense, forcing the team to play iso ball against set defenses.

I think the problem is that you want your super max players to have the ball and to be able to dribble in traffic and pass out of double teams. You don't want a true point guard taking that ball away.

We want ball movement, not iso ball. Tatum and Brown will get better shots that way.

Smart has failed miserably at making this happen, partly because he's just not a floor general and partly because he's too worried about getting his own shots.

I think this is it.

And what's worse is Smart has never relinquished control of the locker room and that's what one of our leaders play like.

No wonder no one plays hard or in their role.

They're all just waiting for their turn just like Smart who's willing to pass only so after he does his job for a few minutes it means he can chuck us out of a game for the next 25 minutes on the court.

We need a transformational player on the court to do all the playmaking, completely rework us from the worst team in close and clutch performances to one of the best, and change our culture in the locker room.

It's hard to find them. Right now the only player I think of who can come close to that personality type and has the playmaking skills that might be available is CP3.

But I wouldn't trust him to be able to play more than 15 mpg next year, and I also wouldn't think he'd be able to take over this locker room and transform it from the bunch of losers that it currently has been for the past at least 3 years since the Irving virus unless you ALSO traded away Smart so CP3 could come in and be the sole voice.

[fallguy]

Would love that. Have wanted this for a few years now, up until recently due to KAT being hurt a lot of late.

KAT has a lower BBIQ than Jaylen.

I don't think that's possible. But I haven't watched KAT too close. But he is more physical and a better fit for this team. But again, not my top option due to his recent injuries.

If you watch Kat closely you'll see he is not what we need at all.

[Upperclass]

This was always who they were as a pair..

Tatum's lack of focus could be a problem at some point.. He seems to be unable to lock in pretty often and seems to go through the motions. Part of it is because i dont think he quite knows what he's doing situationally at all times.. other times i just think his focus heavily drifts

viewtopic.php?p=65564401#p65564401

So.. Has anyone noticed how much better Tatum plays without Brown on the floor..? He's essentially a 19/6 player as a rookie. That's going to have to be a topic of debate this summer in Boston.. esp. with Hayward returning.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tatumja01/gamelog/2018
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02/gamelog/2018

viewtopic.php?p=65788789#p65788789

Folks wont realize until he throws a stink periodically.. but Brown is gonna have to go before Tatum becomes the monster he's set to become. He's easily one of the most talented wings in the league and should be 2a. to Hayward's 2(pending a full recovery)

viewtopic.php?p=64506296#p64506296

19, 22, 9, 24..

Thats the amount of shots Jaylen has taken per game in this series. With Kyrie, Hayward and an improved Tatum, he wont average close to that amount next season.. Will he be happy going back to a "developmental" prospect and role player?.. I dont get the sense that he would.

He seems to have an alpha personality and seems to also be prone to pouting. I think if the chance arises, you take a chance on the better current player that fits the timeline of your better players.. and allow Brown to flourish elsewhere vs competing with time and shots with 2 similarly talented wings and one who may already be better in Tatum(he's not, but its close)

Kawhi would step in and immediately be the best player on the team and best player in the East if LeBron leaves. Thats a larger disparity than even stats would display.

viewtopic.php?p=65521475#p65521475


Tatum and Brown never fit. They just made them play together. Not having a point guard also hurt the dynamic. Trade Brown for Trae and compete for chips for the next 5 years