Zach Edey, 7-4

[DOT]

it's just really freaking hard to defend today's spaced out NBA offenses with multiple triple-threat players on the court in addition to certain rules or rule interpretations limiting defenses. It's more important than ever before to defend on a string in the NBA because teams are much better at exposing even the smallest defensive breakdowns, which also makes those more perceptible to people's eyes. NBA teams have become ever more professional and the talent pool they can choose from is at an all-time high. It doesn't make sense to believe that they just became worse at team defense. Instead, it makes a lot more sense that the offensive evolution just rendered effective defense much more difficult to accomplish and the kind of team defense that used to be sufficient to regularly get stops simply isn't any longer.

Yeah, any time I hear boomers complaining about how "nobody plays defense anymore", I just know they don't actually watch games, they just look at box scores, or they do watch but can't actually process what's going on

I made a whole thread on the General Board a while back reviewing game 1 of the 1993 Finals, and actually watching the game, it's abundantly clear how much of the "good defense" of the 90s was just because so few guys could shoot and dribble, like multiple possessions BJ Armstrong would bring up the ball and Kevin Johnson would be defending him with both feet in the paint before he crossed halfcourt

Yeah, rule changes have made it easier for offenses, but the game itself has evolved to the point where even if you went back to the rules of the 90s, scoring would still be way higher because of how good offenses have gotten.

[GoBobs]

And it will also be a lot harder to defend Edey when the floor is more spaced out.

[The-Power]

And it will also be a lot harder to defend Edey when the floor is more spaced out.

Possibly, yes. But that depends on Edey's ability to pass. To me, that's an even bigger swing skill than defensive mobility or shooting. Can he make quick and accurate reads and execute passes when defenses collapse on him or he sees double-teams? He left a lot on the table in college and NBA defenses are magnitudes better at picking off passes that are even a bit too late or a bit off-target. If he can develop in that regard, he can become an offensive centerpiece for his team. If not, he's most likely going to be too turnover prone and take too many lower percentage shots to justify feeding him to ball a ton. He can still be effective but his role would be much more limited.

[Big J]

it's just really freaking hard to defend today's spaced out NBA offenses with multiple triple-threat players on the court in addition to certain rules or rule interpretations limiting defenses. It's more important than ever before to defend on a string in the NBA because teams are much better at exposing even the smallest defensive breakdowns, which also makes those more perceptible to people's eyes. NBA teams have become ever more professional and the talent pool they can choose from is at an all-time high. It doesn't make sense to believe that they just became worse at team defense. Instead, it makes a lot more sense that the offensive evolution just rendered effective defense much more difficult to accomplish and the kind of team defense that used to be sufficient to regularly get stops simply isn't any longer.

Yeah, any time I hear boomers complaining about how "nobody plays defense anymore", I just know they don't actually watch games, they just look at box scores, or they do watch but can't actually process what's going on

I made a whole thread on the General Board a while back reviewing game 1 of the 1993 Finals, and actually watching the game, it's abundantly clear how much of the "good defense" of the 90s was just because so few guys could shoot and dribble, like multiple possessions BJ Armstrong would bring up the ball and Kevin Johnson would be defending him with both feet in the paint before he crossed halfcourt

Yeah, rule changes have made it easier for offenses, but the game itself has evolved to the point where even if you went back to the rules of the 90s, scoring would still be way higher because of how good offenses have gotten.

BJ Armstrong was a great 3 point shooter though.

[clyde21]

And it will also be a lot harder to defend Edey when the floor is more spaced out.

Possibly, yes. But that depends on Edey's ability to pass. To me, that's an even bigger swing skill than defensive mobility or shooting. Can he make quick and accurate reads and execute passes when defenses collapse on him or he sees double-teams? He left a lot on the table in college and NBA defenses are magnitudes better at picking off passes that are even a bit too late or a bit off-target. If he can develop in that regard, he can become an offensive centerpiece for his team. If not, he's most likely going to be too turnover prone and take too many lower percentage shots to justify feeding him to ball a ton. He can still be effective but his role would be much more limited.

none of it matters if he's not a legit defender out there in the NBA, and I'm not talking about just being a big body i mean possession-changing defense. whatever passing chops he has won't matter if he gets cooked in the NBA.

[FrodoBaggins]

Why Miami is a solid destination for Zach:

https://streamable.com/mgevpm

They utilize more zone principles than any team in the league.

[lastb1ckman]

Why Miami is a solid destination for Zach:

https://streamable.com/mgevpm

They utilize more zone principles than any team in the league.

Oh man, I actually agree with you with Miami and Zach but if you ask any other Heat fan they'd probably laugh us out of the room. I think it would be interesting to finally have a back up center that didn't get bodied defending the rim for once, and I feel like the heat have the personnel and coaching to adapt to his weaknesses and maximize his strengths. And if Bam's 3 point shooting holds up in the future, and if Edey shows some life at the 3 in the next few seasons, I'd love to see the heat experiment with Bam Edey lineups. Myers Leonard, Olynyk, and Yurtseven come to mind. And NONE of those guys were quick on their feet or particularly good rim protectors.

[Diop]

Watching. valanciunas and he’s not more mobile than edey but yet still relevant in playoff basketball

[JustBuzzin]

Watching. valanciunas and he’s not more mobile than edey but yet still relevant in playoff basketball

Once again it's more than his speed. He is a pure post player. Val can work because he can actually shoot the basketball. Edey is not spreading the floor. He's clogging the lane. Val is a floor spacer.

Edey is slow and his game has no range. Not hard to see why he's not even a top 10 pick in a weak draft.

[Diop]

Watching. valanciunas and he’s not more mobile than edey but yet still relevant in playoff basketball

Once again it's more than his speed. He is a pure post player. Val can work because he can actually shoot the basketball. Edey is not spreading the floor. He's clogging the lane. Val is a floor spacer.

Edey is slow and his game has no range. Not hard to see why he's not even a top 10 pick in a weak draft.

Val is just playing big man ball inside.

I’m not saying I want edey in the lottery, just saying he can be relevant in the right situation. Some were writing him off completely

[JustBuzzin]

Watching. valanciunas and he’s not more mobile than edey but yet still relevant in playoff basketball

Once again it's more than his speed. He is a pure post player. Val can work because he can actually shoot the basketball. Edey is not spreading the floor. He's clogging the lane. Val is a floor spacer.

Edey is slow and his game has no range. Not hard to see why he's not even a top 10 pick in a weak draft.

Val is just playing big man ball inside.

I’m not saying I want edey in the lottery, just saying he can be relevant in the right situation. Some were writing him off completely

I think he can be a useful situational backup. I don't see him being anything more than that. Great college player, but the NBA is just another level in terms of speed of play. He's a old school center who happens to be in the wrong era of basketball.

Even Jokic/Embiid are slow but they are highly skilled. There game has range and they aren't just limited to post play.

[GoBobs]

Once again it's more than his speed. He is a pure post player. Val can work because he can actually shoot the basketball. Edey is not spreading the floor. He's clogging the lane. Val is a floor spacer.

Edey is slow and his game has no range. Not hard to see why he's not even a top 10 pick in a weak draft.

Val is just playing big man ball inside.

I’m not saying I want edey in the lottery, just saying he can be relevant in the right situation. Some were writing him off completely

I think he can be a useful situational backup. I don't see him being anything more than that. Great college player, but the NBA is just another level in terms of speed of play. He's a old school center who happens to be in the wrong era of basketball.

Even Jokic/Embiid are slow but they are highly skilled. There game has range and they aren't just limited to post play.

Watch on YouTube

;t=63s
shooting starts at about the 50 sec mark

[JustBuzzin]

Lmao wtf

[azcatz11]

Lmao wtf

That video proves nothing. Andre Drummond can hit literally 20 3s in a row in warmups. So can someone like Javale Mcgee. Cant wait until he busts

[FarBeyondDriven]

Val is just playing big man ball inside.

I’m not saying I want edey in the lottery, just saying he can be relevant in the right situation. Some were writing him off completely

I think he can be a useful situational backup. I don't see him being anything more than that. Great college player, but the NBA is just another level in terms of speed of play. He's a old school center who happens to be in the wrong era of basketball.

Even Jokic/Embiid are slow but they are highly skilled. There game has range and they aren't just limited to post play.

Watch on YouTube

;t=63s
shooting starts at about the 50 sec mark

that's really the key for him. Can he knock down the 15-18 footer if centers drop when he has the ball in the PnR. Can he hit enough threes that he improves spacing. It's one thing to do it in practice when you can take your time and there's no noise around you or contests, it's another in-game. If he was capable it makes no sense why he wasn't doing it this season. I mean, why even return unless you're getting assurances that you can broaden your game to improve your draft stock? He's basically been the same player every season. There's been some physical improvement with conditioning and quickness and touch around the basket but not much. Why bother returning if you're essentially the same player because your coach wouldn't allow you to shoot? This makes me think it's because he just can't do it outside of practices.

[GoBobs]

I think he can be a useful situational backup. I don't see him being anything more than that. Great college player, but the NBA is just another level in terms of speed of play. He's a old school center who happens to be in the wrong era of basketball.

Even Jokic/Embiid are slow but they are highly skilled. There game has range and they aren't just limited to post play.

Watch on YouTube

;t=63s
shooting starts at about the 50 sec mark

that's really the key for him. Can he knock down the 15-18 footer if centers drop when he has the ball in the PnR. Can he hit enough threes that he improves spacing. It's one thing to do it in practice when you can take your time and there's no noise around you or contests, it's another in-game. If he was capable it makes no sense why he wasn't doing it this season. I mean, why even return unless you're getting assurances that you can broaden your game to improve your draft stock? He's basically been the same player every season. There's been some physical improvement with conditioning and quickness and touch around the basket but not much. Why bother returning if you're essentially the same player because your coach wouldn't allow you to shoot? This makes me think it's because he just can't do it outside of practices.

He has said though out his career that he isn't focused on being a better NBA prospect, but instead focused on trying to help his college team win.

This idea that he will be better if he can shoot and stretch the floor is totally false anyway. You want your 300 lb 7'4'' center to play around the basket. That is where the rebounds are.

In college he would have had to shot 41% from 3 in order to match the points per possession he was able to generate from 2. That would also have taken him out of rebounding position and reduced the number of fouls he was able to draw. Just because he didn't do it in college doesn't mean he isn't capable. Especially when what he WAS doing made him the best player in college basketball.

[GoBobs]

Lmao wtf

That video proves nothing. Andre Drummond can hit literally 20 3s in a row in warmups. So can someone like Javale Mcgee. Cant wait until he busts

https://kenpom.substack.com/p/an-ode-to-edey

Zach Edey concluded his career on Monday, completing one of the most remarkable statistical seasons in recent decades. One that’s unlikely to be challenged anytime soon barring a major change to the way the game is played. Edey’s season has been oddly downplayed by critics who either charge he’s the beneficiary of a massive officiating conspiracy or his work should be dismissed because he’s 7-foot-4 (as if the scoreboard cares about a player’s height).

Whatever excuses you want to make, Edey had a season you’re unlikely to see again anytime soon against a schedule that was historically difficult. And he punctuated it with a title game performance that hasn’t been seen in decades against one of the strongest teams in recent times. Love him or hate him, Edey was special. And if you hate him, you’re probably a jealous loser.

[ItsDanger]

Watch on YouTube

?si=aTrA-rzhRSIFHcR2

From 2 seasons ago, around 52 minutes, he explains why he doesn't shoot. It's just less efficient and would be selfish.

[FrodoBaggins]

Most of you don't understand Zach's offensive game at all. I've explained the nuances several times but it goes in one ear and out the other I guess. So, I'll just refer to these previous posts; make sure to read and study them all before commenting further:

viewtopic.php?p=112066844#p112066844
viewtopic.php?p=112115372#p112115372
viewtopic.php?p=112116431#p112116431
viewtopic.php?p=112116692#p112116692

He's what I'd call a hybrid PnR/post-up guy. Like Dwight, he blends his screening and rolling in with off-ball movement to establish deep post position. Sometimes plays end with rolls, sometimes lobs, sometimes deep post catches or dump-offs.

This is different from Shaq, who was a static post-up player who'd move from the left block to the right block while his team reversed the ball to find an ideal entry pass. Rarely would O'Neal leave the frontcourt/paint/low-to-mid post. Edey and Dwight routinely set screens at the three-point line.

It's horizontal vs. high-low. Much easier to play with the Edey/Dwight style because they don't clog the paint as much. Duncan developed into more of this type of player toward the end of his career. More screens, handoffs, and rolls to the paint. Post-up plays coming within the flow of the offense off of the gravity of ball screen actions.

Pretty sure we had this discussion a week ago.

Zach's role in the NBA is going to be different. He'll be more of a rim-runner and clean-up guy with a greater frequency of seals and post pins off the roll, off-ball movement, and potentially in transition. Post-up isolations will be thrown in situationally: against mismatches/cross matches and switches, against bench units, and late in the shot clock during broken plays.

Pretty much how Zubac plays now.

Edey's post-ups accounted for 62% of his total offense as of March 7th, 2024. Might be a little more with the tournament having happened. Putbacks accounted for 15%. PnR roll man accounted for 8%. Cuts account for 6%.

That right there is 91% of his offense. I assume the rest is transition and miscellaneous undefined plays.

All that's going to happen is that his frequency of post-up plays as defined by Synergy will half to around 20-30%. His cuts and PnR roll man plays will both jump up to 20-30%. Putbacks will go to 15-30%.

Zach's combination of size and athleticism makes him unique compared to other rim runners. His main advantages are his rebounding, screening, general physical play, foul drawing, and as King Ken said, his more dynamic offensive game.

But his ability to post up gives him more dimension on offense than rim runners like Clingan or even Kessler. Safety valve points for when the offense gets bogged down.

That superior offensive ability gives him more options not only within the rim-runner/P&R role but also outside of it.

As ItsDanger said:

I think the version of him that you will likely see in NBA on offense was at FIBA U19 where he was with a PG that could break his man down off the dribble. So, kind of mix of various styles but much more off ball.

He played really well in that tournament, didn't he?

- 7 games played
- 23.7 minutes per game
- 15.1 ppg, 14.1 rpg, and 2.3 bpg on 56% FG
- One of five players to be voted an All-Star (Zach Edey, Chet Holmgren, Victor Wembanyama, Nikola Jovic, and Jaden Ivey)

Watch on YouTube

[azcatz11]

There’s really nothing to explain or study. I’ve watched at least 20 Purdue games this past season. He has like 2 post moves and is just flat out bigger than anyone. I reference the first Wisconsin game when Wahl (who isn’t even that good) absolutely gave him the business. Scored like 25 points directly on him. I also think his touch is overrated and doesn’t compare with Boban. He falls a ton and doesn’t have super soft hands.