2023-24 Regular Season

[jbk1234]

I don't disagree with you but since Dan's stroke in 2019, allegedly his son Grant has been driving the ship. If true, he is only 23 and just lost his older brother Nick a couple weeks ago.

Dan owns almost 3/4 of the Cavs. I don't think Usher with his 1% or 2% stake is gonna rock the boat. Plus, he was dapping up the Warriors in the 2016 Finals, so I don't trust his judgement anyway.

Maybe Koby and JB do need to go, and time for sure is of the essence but since that is not the reality we live in, Koby and JB should work together, to find pieces that JB is actually gonna play.

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

[toooskies]

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

Just wanted to note that Love is down to shooting 34% in the playoffs from 3 and is a -5.3 on/off in the playoffs. The dude isn't blowing the doors off the postseason or anything, even if his set of skills were what we needed in the one particular playoff series that we happened to draw in the first round. The Love decision was fine in isolation.

But for goals for last season, it absolutely required that we sign a backup big that could see court time, especially if Wade wasn't looking playable. Even if that was just Nerlens Noel. Even if that was just Diakite, who got some late regular season minutes in that role. And there were a handful of roster spots (Merrill, Windler, Lopez) that simply weren't being used effectively for this season's performance.

Danny Green should never have gotten minutes at power forward.

The alternate universe where Allen twists an ankle and simply can't play a few games in the playoffs would've made our issues exponentially more obvious, and I have no idea how we got into the situation of not having three playable bigs, but this is two years in a row where we needed some minutes at PF or C and simply didn't have the guy on the roster we needed.

Partly because we're treating backup C as an Emeritus role when Mobley's proven his best spot on defense is roaming PF with an anchor C behind him-- he very well should see all his minutes at PF, regardless of whether he can play C or not.

I hope guys like Diakite or I.Mobley are ready to contribute in 2023-24, and moving on from Love probably had to happen at some point. But we need a roster with players who are ready to play.

But ultimately, to beat a team that plays with multiple bigs, we have to be able to play a 4-out offense, and that involves significantly reducing Allen's or Mobley's minutes at playoff time in the current roster construction.

[JonFromVA]

McDaniels is not a shooter. We need guys on the floor who other teams will be scared to help off of so there aren't constantly four defenders in the paint.

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

Miami Heat Fun Fact ...

The difference between their best playoff 5-man unit (+36.0) and their worst (-30.6) is Caleb Martin .vs. Duncan Robinson.

Just 2 years ago Martin joined the Heat on a 2-way contract after getting waived by the Bobcats.

Which is not to say Robinson was useless, he contributed in units too (especially ones with Lowry); but you want the option to use a player like that situationally.

I wish JBB let Isaac go down with the ship, it feels like he over-adjusted moving LeVert in to the starting role after Isaac got in foul trouble in game 2 and we took off. That experience for Isaac could have been crucial and he was doing a superb job on Brunson. I really can't comprehend why Isaac didn't mirror Brunson's minutes, but at times he wasn't even Brunson's primary defender as-if other guys wanted a shot or something?

So as we contemplate whether Isaac's time in Cleveland has come to an end, let me toss out some more fun facts about Isaac in the playoffs:

1) Isaac only shot 30.8% from 3pt in the series, but that was still better than Osman, Mitchell, and Green.
2) Inspite of his lousy 3pt shooting, Isaac led the team in TS% with 62.5%.
3) He was 2nd in ORtg to Jarrett Allen
4) He was 2nd in BPM to Mitchell
5) Led the team in 2pt% at 70%
6) Was the only Cavs (non-garbage time) player with a positive on-court at +0.1
7) His playoff on-off was 3rd best at +8.2

So, as someone who appreciates a coach who comes up with a plan and stands behind it, I'm kind of amazed that JBB didn't stick with Isaac, didn't draw up more ways to get him cutting to the rim, ignored Stevens when we needed toughness, and had other experienced vets like Rubio, Lopez, Neto, and Green he barely played.

Did he even notice that even in our lone win that after his amazing first half that Garland had basically nothing left in the second?

I mean on paper, ramping up the minutes of our best players makes sense and could have even been key in beating a deeper team ... but game 2 was basically the proof it wasn't working. Ramping up the minutes was his late season adjustment, but he should have realized it was taking too much of a toll and reverted.

[JonFromVA]

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

You can't be disappointed by the guys you don't play, but you also can't be surprised.

One thing about shooting is you need your legs and you can't expect your shooters to be fighting through screens and running all over the court on defense for 40+ minutes and still have something left in their legs when the game is on the line.

I think as a fan it would have been more satisfying if JBB let our bench be exposed rather than overplay our core and expose them. We'd still second guess him, but at least the narrative and focus of the team would be clear - and who knows maybe some of those guys would have stepped up.

[jbk1234]

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

Just wanted to note that Love is down to shooting 34% in the playoffs from 3 and is a -5.3 on/off in the playoffs. The dude isn't blowing the doors off the postseason or anything, even if his set of skills were what we needed in the one particular playoff series that we happened to draw in the first round. The Love decision was fine in isolation.

But for goals for last season, it absolutely required that we sign a backup big that could see court time, especially if Wade wasn't looking playable. Even if that was just Nerlens Noel. Even if that was just Diakite, who got some late regular season minutes in that role. And there were a handful of roster spots (Merrill, Windler, Lopez) that simply weren't being used effectively for this season's performance.

Danny Green should never have gotten minutes at power forward.

The alternate universe where Allen twists an ankle and simply can't play a few games in the playoffs would've made our issues exponentially more obvious, and I have no idea how we got into the situation of not having three playable bigs, but this is two years in a row where we needed some minutes at PF or C and simply didn't have the guy on the roster we needed.

Partly because we're treating backup C as an Emeritus role when Mobley's proven his best spot on defense is roaming PF with an anchor C behind him-- he very well should see all his minutes at PF, regardless of whether he can play C or not.

I hope guys like Diakite or I.Mobley are ready to contribute in 2023-24, and moving on from Love probably had to happen at some point. But we need a roster with players who are ready to play.

But ultimately, to beat a team that plays with multiple bigs, we have to be able to play a 4-out offense, and that involves significantly reducing Allen's or Mobley's minutes at playoff time in the current roster construction.

Spacing, like rebounding and rim protection are important because of how they impact the opposition even when they're not showing up on the stat sheet. Does the opposition feel comfortable leaving that player open, do they feel they need to put two bodies on a guy once the shot goes up, are they afraid of getting challenged at the rim even if you're not getting a lot of blocks, etc. Love really impacted how the Knicks approached offensive rebounding after he repeatedly burned them on long outlet passes off of defensive rebounds.

All of that aside, Wade didn't prove himself unplayable IMO, at least not in the sample size that was afforded to him. He's a serviceable defender, rebounder, and passer even when he's struggling with his confidence as a shooter comingoff an injury. I just feel like giving up on him so soon after the letting Love go shouldn't really have been viewed as an option, and yet, it clearly was.

[JujitsuFlip]

Koby did a lot well during the rebuild, but he's overpaid by a considerable amount his last two trades, and in doing so, negated a lot of the value of his earlier moves. Also, fans don't really know what conversations are occurring behind closed doors, or how those conversations might be evolving as Altman watches much better coaches get let go for losing second round series.

If we sign guys who can shoot, or a guy like Watanabe who at least looks like he might be blossoming into one, then I'll expect that was done with the expectation that they'll play. If we sign guys who can't shoot, then I'll start to have questions about who was minding the candy store.

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

Maybe so but Yuta or whoever the Cavs are able to land with their limited resources are not going to be without flaws.

Cavs have 2 really good defenders in Allen and Mobley. Mitchell with effort has proven to not be a negative on that end at least. So idk who the Cavs are going to target to have shooting up and down the rotation that won't just completely break the team in other ways.

I'm interested in guys with 2 way potential and positional versatility. I don't see very many instances with a guy of Seth Curry's play style and body type stealing many minutes while Garland and Mitchell are occupying over 80% of the backcourt minutes.

[jbk1234]

I'm with John on this one, what are the Cavs willing to sacrifice to acquire that shooting?

If it's Ingles, he's a negative defender so will get attacked on that end but let's say his defender is face guarding him, stuck to him like glue. It's irrelevant if he's out there with Mobley and Allen. In a 7 game series, Allen attempted zero 3s and Mobley attempted 1, that he missed.

Just getting an elite shooter is not going to be what unlocks this offense, there are far more issues than Okoro shooting 30.8% from 3 or Cedi shooting 30% from 3 or Green shooting 25% from 3. Do I think having a knockdown shooter would help? Of course I do but putting Ingles at 3 doesn't win us that series.

If they go with Seth Curry he can't share the floor with Garland and Mitchell simultaneously, they're all too small, plus Seth is an awful defender.

So sure, Cavs can target strictly shooting, situationally though it doesn't mean they will see the floor.

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

Miami Heat Fun Fact ...

The difference between their best playoff 5-man unit (+36.0) and their worst (-30.6) is Caleb Martin .vs. Duncan Robinson.

Just 2 years ago Martin joined the Heat on a 2-way contract after getting waived by the Bobcats.

Which is not to say Robinson was useless, he contributed in units too (especially ones with Lowry); but you want the option to use a player like that situationally.

I wish JBB let Isaac go down with the ship, it feels like he over-adjusted moving LeVert in to the starting role after Isaac got in foul trouble in game 2 and we took off. That experience for Isaac could have been crucial and he was doing a superb job on Brunson. I really can't comprehend why Isaac didn't mirror Brunson's minutes, but at times he wasn't even Brunson's primary defender as-if other guys wanted a shot or something?

So as we contemplate whether Isaac's time in Cleveland has come to an end, let me toss out some more fun facts about Isaac in the playoffs:

1) Isaac only shot 30.8% from 3pt in the series, but that was still better than Osman, Mitchell, and Green.
2) Inspite of his lousy 3pt shooting, Isaac led the team in TS% with 62.5%.
3) He was 2nd in ORtg to Jarrett Allen
4) He was 2nd in BPM to Mitchell
5) Led the team in 2pt% at 70%
6) Was the only Cavs (non-garbage time) player with a positive on-court at +0.1
7) His playoff on-off was 3rd best at +8.2

So, as someone who appreciates a coach who comes up with a plan and stands behind it, I'm kind of amazed that JBB didn't stick with Isaac, didn't draw up more ways to get him cutting to the rim, ignored Stevens when we needed toughness, and had other experienced vets like Rubio, Lopez, Neto, and Green he barely played.

Did he even notice that even in our lone win that after his amazing first half that Garland had basically nothing left in the second?

I mean on paper, ramping up the minutes of our best players makes sense and could have even been key in beating a deeper team ... but game 2 was basically the proof it wasn't working. Ramping up the minutes was his late season adjustment, but he should have realized it was taking too much of a toll and reverted.

I agree with a lot of this. I'm not so sure that guys like Lopez, Neto, and even Stevens could play more than 3-4 minutes a game without getting badly exposed, but maybe Lopez wears down Robinson some and/or got him into a bit of foul trouble. Same with Stevens and Randle/Hart. But I feel like Thibs responds to that by bringing in Hartenstein and Toppins. Maybe JBB brings them after Hartenstein and Toppins have already been on floor a bit, but I don't know if he has that type of X and O acumen.

But on Okoro, come on. Those are tiny sample sizes in terms of attempts, which is the problem, and his best minutes were off the bench (while guarding IQ). The Knicks were flat out leaving him alone on the perimeter and he wasn't all that more effective guarding Brunson than LeVert or Cedi.

[JonFromVA]

I don't view either Allen or Mobley as strictly defensive players, but they do need a little room to operate inside or around the painted area. You can't even effectively play an inside-out game with 4 defenders in the paint because it's hard to get the ball back out without turning it over. I don't really understand what we're still debating after the Knicks series.

The reality is that if McDaniels is a hair better shooter than Okoro, and that's who plays in his stead, the Cavs are still going home after the first round. The one game we won, JBB had to bench Okoro because he was in foul trouble. After that, the Knicks decided to just let LeVert and Cedi shoot.

We needs better shooting up and down our rotations. We need a couple guys where the scouting report reads don't help off of them. We need a couple players who the other team is afraid of getting going. If we run back this broken offense another season, nothing is changing, except maybe Mitchell doesn't extend and we have to trade him on an expiring contract.

I mean we have a large sample size here and this wasn't a Hoosiers situation where JBB just needed more time. What we saw was the plan. The Lakers are playing Schroeder, Russell, and LBJ. The Sixers, who swept their first round opponent, played Harden, Maxey, and T. Harris. Denver plays Murray and MPJ. The Heat are running Straus, Lowry, and Love out on the court. The Nuggets start Murray and MPJ. It's really hard to score in the playoffs and unless you have prime LBJ, you don't have the luxury of prioritizing defense in every rotation you run out there.

Miami Heat Fun Fact ...

The difference between their best playoff 5-man unit (+36.0) and their worst (-30.6) is Caleb Martin .vs. Duncan Robinson.

Just 2 years ago Martin joined the Heat on a 2-way contract after getting waived by the Bobcats.

Which is not to say Robinson was useless, he contributed in units too (especially ones with Lowry); but you want the option to use a player like that situationally.

I wish JBB let Isaac go down with the ship, it feels like he over-adjusted moving LeVert in to the starting role after Isaac got in foul trouble in game 2 and we took off. That experience for Isaac could have been crucial and he was doing a superb job on Brunson. I really can't comprehend why Isaac didn't mirror Brunson's minutes, but at times he wasn't even Brunson's primary defender as-if other guys wanted a shot or something?

So as we contemplate whether Isaac's time in Cleveland has come to an end, let me toss out some more fun facts about Isaac in the playoffs:

1) Isaac only shot 30.8% from 3pt in the series, but that was still better than Osman, Mitchell, and Green.
2) Inspite of his lousy 3pt shooting, Isaac led the team in TS% with 62.5%.
3) He was 2nd in ORtg to Jarrett Allen
4) He was 2nd in BPM to Mitchell
5) Led the team in 2pt% at 70%
6) Was the only Cavs (non-garbage time) player with a positive on-court at +0.1
7) His playoff on-off was 3rd best at +8.2

So, as someone who appreciates a coach who comes up with a plan and stands behind it, I'm kind of amazed that JBB didn't stick with Isaac, didn't draw up more ways to get him cutting to the rim, ignored Stevens when we needed toughness, and had other experienced vets like Rubio, Lopez, Neto, and Green he barely played.

Did he even notice that even in our lone win that after his amazing first half that Garland had basically nothing left in the second?

I mean on paper, ramping up the minutes of our best players makes sense and could have even been key in beating a deeper team ... but game 2 was basically the proof it wasn't working. Ramping up the minutes was his late season adjustment, but he should have realized it was taking too much of a toll and reverted.

I agree with a lot of this. I'm not so sure that guys like Lopez, Neto, and even Stevens could play more than 3-4 minutes a game without getting badly exposed, but maybe Lopez wears down Robinson some and/or got him into a bit of foul trouble. Same with Stevens and Randle/Hart. But I feel like Thibs responds to that by bringing in Hartenstein and Toppins. Maybe JBB brings them after Hartenstein and Toppins have already been on floor a bit, but I don't know if he has that type of X and O acumen.

But on Okoro, come on. Those are tiny sample sizes in terms of attempts, which is the problem, and his best minutes were off the bench (while guarding IQ). The Knicks were flat out leaving him alone on the perimeter and he wasn't all that more effective guarding Brunson than LeVert or Cedi.

Right or wrong, my real point here is I think we have a very different outlook on this off-season if JBB stuck with what he'd been doing all season and that means stuff like starting Isaac come hell or high water and only pulling him if it's clear he's killing us with bricked shots. That means using his 3rd big - which was supposed to be Dean with Kevin gone, but if he was too hurt then Stevens. Using Stevens when we need a burst of energy/toughness or another defender. Using Rubio to calm things down, pick up the pace, and get the ball moving especially when Caris or Cedi are getting sloppy.

And personally, I thought Lopez and Neto played very positive minutes when they got a chance but JBB never treated them as even candidates to be in the rotation, so hoping he'd dust them off (let alone Diakite, Mobley, Windler, or Merril) is just wishful thinking.

We really didn't need a ton of minutes from these guys to get the starters minutes down in to the reasonable range.

So, let's say JBB stuck to the script and exposed our bench? Maybe he takes some hits for trusting them and not pumping up the minutes on everyone else, but everyone else presumably plays better, fewer people are calling for his head, and everyone stays focused on what needs to happen this Summer which is improving the bench rather than blowing up the team.

Or maybe, just maybe some of those guys he didn't trust got their act together and showed us they're not all trash to be dumped so we can take on some other team's cast-offs.

[jbk1234]

Miami Heat Fun Fact ...

The difference between their best playoff 5-man unit (+36.0) and their worst (-30.6) is Caleb Martin .vs. Duncan Robinson.

Just 2 years ago Martin joined the Heat on a 2-way contract after getting waived by the Bobcats.

Which is not to say Robinson was useless, he contributed in units too (especially ones with Lowry); but you want the option to use a player like that situationally.

I wish JBB let Isaac go down with the ship, it feels like he over-adjusted moving LeVert in to the starting role after Isaac got in foul trouble in game 2 and we took off. That experience for Isaac could have been crucial and he was doing a superb job on Brunson. I really can't comprehend why Isaac didn't mirror Brunson's minutes, but at times he wasn't even Brunson's primary defender as-if other guys wanted a shot or something?

So as we contemplate whether Isaac's time in Cleveland has come to an end, let me toss out some more fun facts about Isaac in the playoffs:

1) Isaac only shot 30.8% from 3pt in the series, but that was still better than Osman, Mitchell, and Green.
2) Inspite of his lousy 3pt shooting, Isaac led the team in TS% with 62.5%.
3) He was 2nd in ORtg to Jarrett Allen
4) He was 2nd in BPM to Mitchell
5) Led the team in 2pt% at 70%
6) Was the only Cavs (non-garbage time) player with a positive on-court at +0.1
7) His playoff on-off was 3rd best at +8.2

So, as someone who appreciates a coach who comes up with a plan and stands behind it, I'm kind of amazed that JBB didn't stick with Isaac, didn't draw up more ways to get him cutting to the rim, ignored Stevens when we needed toughness, and had other experienced vets like Rubio, Lopez, Neto, and Green he barely played.

Did he even notice that even in our lone win that after his amazing first half that Garland had basically nothing left in the second?

I mean on paper, ramping up the minutes of our best players makes sense and could have even been key in beating a deeper team ... but game 2 was basically the proof it wasn't working. Ramping up the minutes was his late season adjustment, but he should have realized it was taking too much of a toll and reverted.

I agree with a lot of this. I'm not so sure that guys like Lopez, Neto, and even Stevens could play more than 3-4 minutes a game without getting badly exposed, but maybe Lopez wears down Robinson some and/or got him into a bit of foul trouble. Same with Stevens and Randle/Hart. But I feel like Thibs responds to that by bringing in Hartenstein and Toppins. Maybe JBB brings them after Hartenstein and Toppins have already been on floor a bit, but I don't know if he has that type of X and O acumen.

But on Okoro, come on. Those are tiny sample sizes in terms of attempts, which is the problem, and his best minutes were off the bench (while guarding IQ). The Knicks were flat out leaving him alone on the perimeter and he wasn't all that more effective guarding Brunson than LeVert or Cedi.

Right or wrong, my real point here is I think we have a very different outlook on this off-season if JBB stuck with what he'd been doing all season and that means stuff like starting Isaac come hell or high water and only pulling him if it's clear he's killing us with bricked shots. That means using his 3rd big - which was supposed to be Dean with Kevin gone, but if he was too hurt then Stevens. Using Stevens when we need a burst of energy/toughness or another defender. Using Rubio to calm things down, pick up the pace, and get the ball moving especially when Caris or Cedi are getting sloppy.

And personally, I thought Lopez and Neto played very positive minutes when they got a chance but JBB never treated them as even candidates to be in the rotation, so hoping he'd dust them off (let alone Diakite, Mobley, Windler, or Merril) is just wishful thinking.

We really didn't need a ton of minutes from these guys to get the starters minutes down in to the reasonable range.

So, let's say JBB stuck to the script and exposed our bench? Maybe he takes some hits for trusting them and not pumping up the minutes on everyone else, but everyone else presumably plays better, fewer people are calling for his head, and everyone stays focused on what needs to happen this Summer which is improving the bench rather than blowing up the team.

Or maybe, just maybe some of those guys he didn't trust got their act together and showed us they're not all trash to be dumped so we can take on some other team's cast-offs.

Outside of LeVert, and arguably Stevens, our bench players saw very few minutes after the trade deadline, and they didn’t start in a great place before that. He pretty much did stick to the script.

[jbk1234]

Well, I'm sure when the Cavs signed Green, Merrill, & Neto, drafted Windler, and re-signed Wade, the expectation was for them to play.

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

Maybe so but Yuta or whoever the Cavs are able to land with their limited resources are not going to be without flaws.

Cavs have 2 really good defenders in Allen and Mobley. Mitchell with effort has proven to not be a negative on that end at least. So idk who the Cavs are going to target to have shooting up and down the rotation that won't just completely break the team in other ways.

I'm interested in guys with 2 way potential and positional versatility. I don't see very many instances with a guy of Seth Curry's play style and body type stealing many minutes while Garland and Mitchell are occupying over 80% of the backcourt minutes.

Mitchell is a negative defender.

[JujitsuFlip]

With the exception of Wade, there's a pretty good explanation as to why those guys didn't get a lot of run. Neto isn't actually a great shooter. Green is pretty cashed. Windler is a walking injury. Merrill is an undersized G League player.

But I am vexed that the Cavs arrived at their decision on Love and didn't realize they almost had to make it work with Wade.

Maybe so but Yuta or whoever the Cavs are able to land with their limited resources are not going to be without flaws.

Cavs have 2 really good defenders in Allen and Mobley. Mitchell with effort has proven to not be a negative on that end at least. So idk who the Cavs are going to target to have shooting up and down the rotation that won't just completely break the team in other ways.

I'm interested in guys with 2 way potential and positional versatility. I don't see very many instances with a guy of Seth Curry's play style and body type stealing many minutes while Garland and Mitchell are occupying over 80% of the backcourt minutes.

Mitchell is a negative defender.

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

[jbk1234]

Maybe so but Yuta or whoever the Cavs are able to land with their limited resources are not going to be without flaws.

Cavs have 2 really good defenders in Allen and Mobley. Mitchell with effort has proven to not be a negative on that end at least. So idk who the Cavs are going to target to have shooting up and down the rotation that won't just completely break the team in other ways.

I'm interested in guys with 2 way potential and positional versatility. I don't see very many instances with a guy of Seth Curry's play style and body type stealing many minutes while Garland and Mitchell are occupying over 80% of the backcourt minutes.

Mitchell is a negative defender.

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

[JonFromVA]

I agree with a lot of this. I'm not so sure that guys like Lopez, Neto, and even Stevens could play more than 3-4 minutes a game without getting badly exposed, but maybe Lopez wears down Robinson some and/or got him into a bit of foul trouble. Same with Stevens and Randle/Hart. But I feel like Thibs responds to that by bringing in Hartenstein and Toppins. Maybe JBB brings them after Hartenstein and Toppins have already been on floor a bit, but I don't know if he has that type of X and O acumen.

But on Okoro, come on. Those are tiny sample sizes in terms of attempts, which is the problem, and his best minutes were off the bench (while guarding IQ). The Knicks were flat out leaving him alone on the perimeter and he wasn't all that more effective guarding Brunson than LeVert or Cedi.

Right or wrong, my real point here is I think we have a very different outlook on this off-season if JBB stuck with what he'd been doing all season and that means stuff like starting Isaac come hell or high water and only pulling him if it's clear he's killing us with bricked shots. That means using his 3rd big - which was supposed to be Dean with Kevin gone, but if he was too hurt then Stevens. Using Stevens when we need a burst of energy/toughness or another defender. Using Rubio to calm things down, pick up the pace, and get the ball moving especially when Caris or Cedi are getting sloppy.

And personally, I thought Lopez and Neto played very positive minutes when they got a chance but JBB never treated them as even candidates to be in the rotation, so hoping he'd dust them off (let alone Diakite, Mobley, Windler, or Merril) is just wishful thinking.

We really didn't need a ton of minutes from these guys to get the starters minutes down in to the reasonable range.

So, let's say JBB stuck to the script and exposed our bench? Maybe he takes some hits for trusting them and not pumping up the minutes on everyone else, but everyone else presumably plays better, fewer people are calling for his head, and everyone stays focused on what needs to happen this Summer which is improving the bench rather than blowing up the team.

Or maybe, just maybe some of those guys he didn't trust got their act together and showed us they're not all trash to be dumped so we can take on some other team's cast-offs.

Outside of LeVert, and arguably Stevens, our bench players saw very few minutes after the trade deadline, and they didn’t start in a great place before that. He pretty much did stick to the script.

Not sure how you can say that, his rotations in the playoffs were all over the map as he tried to find something that worked rather than lean on the rotations he'd supposedly been preparing.

It would be one thing if JBB decided Caris would match up better .vs. the Knicks and gave him the start in game 1. Or if he wanted another vet in the starting lineup, he could have just left Caris in the starting lineup to close out the regular season; but I find his lack of faith in his own decisions disturbing.

[JonFromVA]

Mitchell is a negative defender.

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

We were tied for the 8th ranked offense in the regular season, rather than break the defense it may be more productive to examine why the offense and rebounding broke down in the playoffs and address that. It's not like team's only discovered they could pack the paint on us in the playoffs.

[jbk1234]

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

We were tied for the 8th ranked offense in the regular season, rather than break the defense it may be more productive to examine why the offense and rebounding broke down in the playoffs and address that. It's not like team's only discovered they could pack the paint on us in the playoffs.

That's based on offensive rating, but when you look at actual ppg, our offense was bottom 10. Ratings are projections based on 100 possessions, but the Cavs play at a slower pace so the projections aren't terribly useful. There was certainly no reason to believe that the delta between actual points scored and projected points would shrink as we faced tougher defenses and the game slowed down in the playoffs.

[JujitsuFlip]

Mitchell is a negative defender.

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

Like I say, with Allen and Mobley not looking at a shot outside of 10 feet, the offense is gonna be clunky, regardless, especially with how hot and cold Mitchell can be.

[jbk1234]

It's difficult for me to agree to that, based on this past season, given the 4 sites I look at. For the sake of argument though, let's say Mitchell as a whole is a negative defender, that does not help your POV that the Cavs should target 1 way offensive players this summer to be up and down our rotation. If anything, that proves the guys we get with the limited assets we have need to be versatile, to see floor minutes.

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

Like I say, with Allen and Mobley not looking at a shot outside of 10 feet, the offense is gonna be clunky, regardless, especially with how hot and cold Mitchell can be.

They weren't helping off of Allen or Mobley though.

[JujitsuFlip]

We just lost a playoff series where our opponent barely averaged 100 ppg. We can afford to surrender a little defense. We cannot run it back for a third season with a broken offense.

Like I say, with Allen and Mobley not looking at a shot outside of 10 feet, the offense is gonna be clunky, regardless, especially with how hot and cold Mitchell can be.

They weren't helping off of Allen or Mobley though.

They sure weren't because they were both already in the paint, why would anyone help off a guy when he can be guarded and the rim can still be protected?

This isn't the 90s where having 1 Steve Kerr style shooter is enough to stretch out a defense. To go a true 5 out, most likely neither of Allen/Mobley will be able to be on the floor, for sure not both.

Cavs can put prime 6'7" Kyle Korver, a career 42.9% three-point shooter/47.3% career corner three-point shooter on the weak side of that high PnR/ISO elementary playground style offense, and guess what? The lane is still going to be clogged up if the core 4 are out there with said shooter.

[jbk1234]

Like I say, with Allen and Mobley not looking at a shot outside of 10 feet, the offense is gonna be clunky, regardless, especially with how hot and cold Mitchell can be.

They weren't helping off of Allen or Mobley though.

They sure weren't because they were both already in the paint, why would anyone help off a guy when he can be guarded and the rim can still be protected?

This isn't the 90s where having 1 Steve Kerr style shooter is enough to stretch out a defense. To go a true 5 out, most likely neither of Allen/Mobley will be able to be on the floor, for sure not both.

Cavs can put prime 6'7" Kyle Korver, a career 42.9% three-point shooter/47.3% career corner three-point shooter on the weak side of that high PnR/ISO elementary playground style offense, and guess what? The lane is still going to be clogged up if the core 4 are out there with said shooter.

I mean both Garland and Mitchell are good three point shooters so I wouldn't mind seeing opposing teams try that.

[JujitsuFlip]

They weren't helping off of Allen or Mobley though.

They sure weren't because they were both already in the paint, why would anyone help off a guy when he can be guarded and the rim can still be protected?

This isn't the 90s where having 1 Steve Kerr style shooter is enough to stretch out a defense. To go a true 5 out, most likely neither of Allen/Mobley will be able to be on the floor, for sure not both.

Cavs can put prime 6'7" Kyle Korver, a career 42.9% three-point shooter/47.3% career corner three-point shooter on the weak side of that high PnR/ISO elementary playground style offense, and guess what? The lane is still going to be clogged up if the core 4 are out there with said shooter.

I mean both Garland and Mitchell are good three point shooters so I wouldn't mind seeing opposing teams try that.

In a 7 game series, for 2 straight seasons, Mitchell has proven he is not a good shooter, when it counts.

So yes, let's pray Garland, when he is on is enough to create the requisite space this offense needs... No thanks get me 2 way players so 3 of the 4 of Mitchell, Garland, Mobley, and Allen can go grab some pine so the Cavs can actually go 5 out, like a modern NBA offense.