ForeverTFC wrote:Scase wrote:ForeverTFC wrote:Again, only a year ago:
That really just kind of proves my point though. Either they believed him to be that skilled, and then got a rude wake up call realizing he ain't it. Otherwise, why would they trade him for scraps.
Or they were posturing for more value, because it was at the trade deadline, and Ainge is one of the best GMs in the league.
Unless you can think of some reason why an "untouchable" 14th OA player was traded for one of the absolute worst picks in the first round, in a rumoured bad draft.
I think the situations are very different. If you read the Jazz forums and sub-reddits, they didn’t like the deal and giving up Ochai.
TBF, tons of Raptors fans thought that Flynn just needed some extra time, or he was being used poorly, etc. So that shouldn't be factored in.
The prevailing thought on their end is that:
1) they really wanted to trade Kelly instead of losing him for nothing but couldn’t fetch a first for him and needed to add something
2) Ochai is ultimately a role player and the Jazz would not be where they need to be to justify a second contract for him
3) this is a signal by Ainge that the rebuild will be longer than they thought after over performing last year and thinking they were ahead of schedule
Number 1) is just a general expectation/hope of any expiring. And if Ochai was worth keeping, you'd rather let a 31 year old centre walk for nothing, than trading an "untouchable" prospect. Like would we trade Gradey for the 28th pick, just so Thad didn't walk for nothing? It doesn't check out at all.
Number 2) is really the same here as it is in Utah. We are not going to be where we need to be, to justify his second contract. Roleplayers of Ochai's quality/talent level are a dime a dozen. They are quite literally the last type of need you fill.
Number 3) this is speculation (as it all is tbf) that I think requires much more of a leap in logic over say, they realized he wasn't "untouchable", or were just posturing. No one ever considers a role player in a rebuild to be untouchable. The more obvious and realistic answer, is it was just to try and bleed more value out of a trade partner than the player is worth (Masai), and not some inherent spectacular value of a mid player.
Players of Scotties calibre are "untouchable", not a guy who has shown very few NBA level skills at 24.
Jazz don’t believe they have a number 1 yet. Raptors do. So our FO is valuing him different than the Jazz.
I’ve always said that not believing we have our franchise player in Barnes is a valid debate. And if you don’t think Scottie is that, then maybe you hold on for some <1% chance at the back end of the draft. But if you are a believer in Scottie, the expected value of Ocahi is just higher and the move makes a ton more sense when you realize how complementary he is to Scottie.
This for sure is up for debate. But even if we say that Scottie absolutely is that #1 player, there is no rush to get a player like Ochai. All of this is somewhat moot though, if we assume (as has been the case the last 4 years) that Masai thinks again that a rather limited core is "it".
If Masai pictures this core as the final centrepiece of a successful team, you are likely right in most of your assessment. I just hope that isn't the case, as I'd rather not be in this exact position again, 3-5 years from now.