anotherhomer wrote:akakalakin wrote:Masai admitted tanking and Raptors were penalized by the NBA several years ago. Curious why not this year
you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo
uh no ,absolutely Masai
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anotherhomer wrote:akakalakin wrote:Masai admitted tanking and Raptors were penalized by the NBA several years ago. Curious why not this year
you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo
akakalakin wrote:anotherhomer wrote:akakalakin wrote:Masai admitted tanking and Raptors were penalized by the NBA several years ago. Curious why not this year
you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo
uh no ,absolutely Masai
ArthurVandelay wrote:deck wrote:metafisical wrote:
Stop trying to use logic and make sense. The naysayers will still ask same one-dimensional, static question that they always ask: how many teams have won a championship by just tanking (i.e., how many teams have won a championship by tanking and keeping all of their drafted players, but did not trade any of those draftees for other players, because adding that proviso would destroy the reason I am asking the original question)?
I agree with you: tank for a purpose, even if it's for a few seasons. We don't have to keep all the players we tanked for. That has to be emphasized over and over again. Our 2018-19 championship won in part to shrewd trades of our top 10 drafted players (e.g., DD + Poeltl for Leonard, JV for Gasol).
I think that's what tank naysayers are afraid of -- that tanking actually works if it is done dynamically. Hence why they have to focus their question, stated above, with the stipulation that tanking teams aren't allowed to trade their players..
Right, but we didn't tank to get DD, JV, or Ross. And in the years following 2013/2014 we also didn't gut the team for draft picks to try to get a generational talent through the draft. A significant amount of disagreement on the board is simply a definition problem regarding the word 'tank'. We didn't make any tanking moves leading up to 2019, we actually did the opposite in that the team was always incrementally improving going back to 2010-ish time frame. This has been debated many times, and I've never seen anyone put forward a coherent argument that 2019 is somehow the result of tanking.
Tanking by definition means making your team purposefully bad in hopes of drafting future players, either by sitting healthy players, or by trading players away for future draft compensation. The Raptors have done this twice (of their own volition) in the entire history of our franchise; first to get Barnes, and again this year after trading Siakam.
Very few if anyone will debate that getting talent via the draft is a plausible way to improve a team. I also suspect very few people had a problem with shutting down Lowry in 2021 to move up in the draft to get Barnes. Plenty of people though likely see the inherent problems with trading away your best players for draft picks, as the timelines involved in those kinds of moves are typically half decades rather than one or two seasons. It's also why GMs are likely not going to favour those options, as they will likely be fired before the franchise exits that kind of tanking.
I'm not sure on the history there.
I thought the Raptors definitely tanked in 2010-11 for JV after Bosh left. They finished third worst with 22 wins but that was when the lottery was just top 3 and they slipped 2 spots during the Young Gunz/Onez era. They then tanked again in strike shortened 2012 with JV playing at home. They were one win away from getting Lillard but instead slipped to 8th on a Ben Uzoh triple double W vs Nets leading to Coin Toss Ross. For 2012-2013 Colangelo "accelerated the rebuild" to disastrous results which lead to him getting fired/Masai hired and sent a 1-5 & 15-30 playoff protected draft pick to Houston for Lowry.
They didn't tank for DD in 2009 though, they were just bad which I'm sure played a large part in Bosh leaving. And they were also a lottery team in 2010 with a 40-42 record selecting Davis 13th.
And definitely agree on the 2013 to 2019 era. Lots of calls for tanking but never happened.
Raptors under Masai have been situational tankers. 2021 in Tampa and then this year once Scottie went down. I don't think they tank next year but I really think they should. They are going to be one Poeltl trade or injury away from bad.
Bruin wrote:Potentially good news for the Olympic team too
?s=46&t=6Hx3ZCSHlysihvhqh0K3hw
WuTang_OG wrote:10 games left
Wish we could sim the rest
maybe we get 1 win
should secure 6
LoveMyRaps wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:10 games left
Wish we could sim the rest
maybe we get 1 win
should secure 6
Hopefully we're able create enough separation with the Grizzlies by April 9th, so we can take the game against the Pacers seriously and potentially win.
2019nbachamps wrote:Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.
Johnny Bball wrote:2019nbachamps wrote:Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.
Wut?
WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56
KL78192020 wrote:Johnny Bball wrote:2019nbachamps wrote:Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.
Wut?
I think he’s saying this team sucked regardless, even before the deadline with Siakam and OG. Although they wouldn’t be losing this much if Barnes, and co were healthy.
DelAbbot wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56
Sounds very logical and reasonable.
Scase wrote:DelAbbot wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56
Sounds very logical and reasonable.
Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.
DelAbbot wrote:Scase wrote:DelAbbot wrote:
Sounds very logical and reasonable.
Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.
Looking back to Tampa, he did tank after the TDL, and it was masterful in that we played many games with one or two starters and remained competitive and still lost. It was much more fun / exciting to cheer for losses when it's not guaranteed like these days.
MASAI UJIRI: Yeah, so it's patience, really. When you have young players, we have to always be patient, we have to be. And it's not going to go good all the time. I sat here and told you guys it's not going to be pretty. I think you guys remember that. It's going to be up and down. That's just how development works, how building works. But their mindset, the mindset has to be winning.
However you look at it, last year, the Tampa tank year, we won.
DelAbbot wrote:Scase wrote:DelAbbot wrote:
Sounds very logical and reasonable.
Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.
Looking back to Tampa, he did tank after the TDL, and it was masterful in that we played many games with one or two starters and remained competitive and still lost. It was much more fun / exciting to cheer for losses when it's not guaranteed like these days.
WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56
so we traded poetlt away for nothing.Should just traded him to boston