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PG: Wrecked

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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#121 » by mieshpal » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:54 pm

Brinbe wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:Jesus, I can't believe the stupid crap I'm reading on the board now. We're literally fielding a G-League team, and people want to be critical. Here are the overt goals for the rest of the season:

1. Develop the legit young talent (Gradey and Ochai ... and Jontay if by some miracle he's not guilty)
2. Figure out if Gary can learn to play the right way and be worthy of a contract offer
3. Try to find some diamonds in the rough among the G-Leaguers
4. Try to increase the trade value of Bruce Brown.

That's it. That's the list. Every game thread and post-game thread should focus on these aspects of the game.

The unpublicized goal appears to be to lose out this season, at least until Memphis wins a few more games and separates themselves from us. I thought the intention might to convey the pick this year, but it doesn't look like it at this point.

Preach it, 100% on point.
Yep, many people have no idea about the rough times in raptor land. This is a year to write off and next year the young core will be back with some new young additions and maybe another vet. It will take time, but hopefully they make the right calls and develop a great team down the road. Nothing is guaranteed folks.

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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#122 » by mieshpal » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:55 pm

PushDaRock wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:Jesus, I can't believe the stupid crap I'm reading on the board now. We're literally fielding a G-League team, and people want to be critical. Here are the overt goals for the rest of the season:

1. Develop the legit young talent (Gradey and Ochai ... and Jontay if by some miracle he's not guilty)
2. Figure out if Gary can learn to play the right way and be worthy of a contract offer
3. Try to find some diamonds in the rough among the G-Leaguers
4. Try to increase the trade value of Bruce Brown.

That's it. That's the list. Every game thread and post-game thread should focus on these aspects of the game.

The unpublicized goal appears to be to lose out this season, at least until Memphis wins a few more games and separates themselves from us. I thought the intention might to convey the pick this year, but it doesn't look like it at this point.


It was until Barnes went down and then Jak the next game, this has been one of the quickest tank pivots ever. We definitely are prioritizing development over even trying to be competitive.
Yep. What they should be doing. I hope they get the pick cause they could even trade it

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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#123 » by nikster » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:57 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Breaking news, tanking team gets destroyed.

The belief that tanking team will always be competitive in every game but still lose is ridiculous.


Not true, the Tampa tank in the final 2 months were competitive basketball with L at the end. Every game had only 1 or 2 starter and we had a fighting chance, only for Nick Nurse to make a self-sabotage sub in the final mins


a) we were running Lowry, OG, Siakam, Fred etc in a lot of those games
b) If we had won those games, y'all would have been crying that we weren't 'tanking properly'.

This is tanking. Rolling out G-league level guys and getting crushed.

And this is more aggressive tanking cause we had more to catch up. The Tampa year we finished the season 2-11 which would still leave us ahead of the Grizzlies right now

I said it earlier, but every team below us has been blown out like this
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#124 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:57 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
We're in a **** up spot because they COULD find more to the gambling on our team?

We're in a bad spot regardless, we're a 23 W team who doesn't own their pick. But, yes it can get worse. They can clear house and a new guy comes in. Then it's not his vision or guys.

How pervasive is the problem?


We're in an okay spot. We're a 23 win team because we've lost 12 in a row and intentionally rolling out a g-league team.

We owe one pick and have the rest of our own 1st rounders
We have two Indiana 1sts and a detroit high 2nd.
We have Scottie Barnes and Gradey Dick
We have solid role players in KO, Quickley, Barrett and Poeltl with an intriuging piece in Ochai.

We're not in a 'bad spot'.

We'll dig ourselves out of this only when Scottie pulls us out of the mud. That's tied to his hand injury, and his age at this point.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#125 » by Duffman100 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:58 pm

nikster wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
DelAbbot wrote:
Not true, the Tampa tank in the final 2 months were competitive basketball with L at the end. Every game had only 1 or 2 starter and we had a fighting chance, only for Nick Nurse to make a self-sabotage sub in the final mins


a) we were running Lowry, OG, Siakam, Fred etc in a lot of those games
b) If we had won those games, y'all would have been crying that we weren't 'tanking properly'.

This is tanking. Rolling out G-league level guys and getting crushed.

And this is more aggressive tanking cause we had more to catch up. The Tampa year we finished the season 2-11 which would still leave us ahead of the Grizzlies right now

I said it earlier, but every team below us has been blown out like this


I just posted numerous games from Tampa season and from Memphis of them getting blown out. IT HAPPENS.

You can't tank and be competitive in every game always.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#126 » by TimeForChange » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:59 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
TimeForChange wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Breaking news, tanking team gets destroyed.

The belief that tanking team will always be competitive in every game but still lose is ridiculous.

when memphis had everyone injured, and were running a line up of 10-day signups, were they putting up a better defense than what you have seen the last few games with the raptors?


They're also getting crushed in games.

137-116 GS
124-93 Thunder
128-103 Denver
122-92 Blazers
111-86 Nets.

Tanking teams get destroyed sometimes. It happens.

Again, I am referring to when Memphis was fielding a G-League team due to injuries. I am not sure what posting the last 5 results shows? I also don't see anyone scoring 145 points against them.

Either way, you are not going to debate in good faith, so I am not going to continue this argument.

My final point on this topic is that when you have a young team, allowing them to play piss poor defense, without holding anyone accountable, does not leave a good impression on the players. It is not healthy for the players to continue to lose, but it is even worse when those players are not showing any effort at all out there.

Yes, I know most of these guys won't be on the team next year. That just shows you how poor a job management has done assembling a roster. It still doesn't mean these losses and lack of effort won't leave a lasting impression on the players not playing. Do you think a 27 year old Poeltl wants to be in a situation where his coaching staff doesn't know how to hold the players accountable? Does he want to continue in a situation where the coaching staff doesn't teach defense and doesn't expect them to play any defense?

When the starters play next year and this team wins 35 games, what will the excuse be then?
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#127 » by Duffman100 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:01 pm

TimeForChange wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
TimeForChange wrote:when memphis had everyone injured, and were running a line up of 10-day signups, were they putting up a better defense than what you have seen the last few games with the raptors?


They're also getting crushed in games.

137-116 GS
124-93 Thunder
128-103 Denver
122-92 Blazers
111-86 Nets.

Tanking teams get destroyed sometimes. It happens.

Again, I am referring to when Memphis was fielding a G-League team due to injuries. I am not sure what posting the last 5 results shows? I also don't see anyone scoring 145 points against them.

Either way, you are not going to debate in good faith, so I am not going to continue this argument.

My final point on this topic is that when you have a young team, allowing them to play piss poor defense, without holding anyone accountable, does not leave a good impression on the players. It is not healthy for the players to continue to lose, but it is even worse when those players are not showing any effort at all out there.

Yes, I know most of these guys won't be on the team next year. That just shows you how poor a job management has done assembling a roster. It still doesn't mean these losses and lack of effort won't leave a lasting impression on the players not playing. Do you think a 27 year old Poeltl wants to be in a situation where his coaching staff doesn't know how to hold the players accountable? Does he want to continue in a situation where the coaching staff doesn't teach defense and doesn't expect them to play any defense?

When the starters play next year and this team wins 35 games, what will the excuse be then?


137 is 8 less points less than 145. So yeah, it's pretty much the same.

It's showing that tanking teams get destroyed sometimes, which is what I wrote. Because yes, that's what happens.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#128 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:10 pm

Duffman100 wrote:Breaking news, tanking team gets destroyed.

The belief that tanking team will always be competitive in every game but still lose is ridiculous.


This is what tanking looks like. You don't lose a lot by being a good team. You lose a lot by being a bad team that plays mostly bad (or talented but very young) players who make a lot of bad plays and bad mistakes. Nobody who ever advocated for tWo should ever complain about anything to do with us losing and sucking now.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#129 » by nikster » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:14 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
TimeForChange wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
They're also getting crushed in games.

137-116 GS
124-93 Thunder
128-103 Denver
122-92 Blazers
111-86 Nets.

Tanking teams get destroyed sometimes. It happens.

Again, I am referring to when Memphis was fielding a G-League team due to injuries. I am not sure what posting the last 5 results shows? I also don't see anyone scoring 145 points against them.

Either way, you are not going to debate in good faith, so I am not going to continue this argument.

My final point on this topic is that when you have a young team, allowing them to play piss poor defense, without holding anyone accountable, does not leave a good impression on the players. It is not healthy for the players to continue to lose, but it is even worse when those players are not showing any effort at all out there.

Yes, I know most of these guys won't be on the team next year. That just shows you how poor a job management has done assembling a roster. It still doesn't mean these losses and lack of effort won't leave a lasting impression on the players not playing. Do you think a 27 year old Poeltl wants to be in a situation where his coaching staff doesn't know how to hold the players accountable? Does he want to continue in a situation where the coaching staff doesn't teach defense and doesn't expect them to play any defense?

When the starters play next year and this team wins 35 games, what will the excuse be then?


137 is 8 less points less than 145. So yeah, it's pretty much the same.

It's showing that tanking teams get destroyed sometimes, which is what I wrote. Because yes, that's what happens.

Memphis also gave up 142 earlier this year and that was with the last 2 DPOYs (Smart and Jackson) playing in that game
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#130 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:15 pm

What you do, is who you are.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#131 » by Brinbe » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:15 pm

Way too much whining.

How many of those players playing tonight will even be in the rotation next year? Two or three? It might well just be KO/Gradey and they were fine last night even playing above where they'll be situated role-wise next season. The biggest thing is that Gradey was able to score at that level against a pretty good defensive Knicks team.



This is literally the only thing that mattered in that game.

Next season we'll have IQ/Gradey/RJ/Scottie/Yak starting, and they've shown that they can keep up with most other teams when healthy. In that short time that they were together they were plenty competitive with some really good teams. It wasn't perfect and we know there's lots of work to do to improve defensively but they can score, which was a big problem with the old core that we started out the season with. Another summer of improvement and more time to work together to help them gain more chemistry together. They will only keep getting better.

At least right now we figure to bring back KO/Ochai off the bench at the very least and then we'll see what happens with Gary and there's flexibility there to trade Bruce/Boucher and improve the team. Also consider that we'll be bringing on-board 2/3 rookies and probably bring back some of the fringe g-league level guys to round things out. But the point is that there's lots of cap space and assets to drastically improve the bench/raise the floor of our rotation level guys compared to what we have now and that depth should help a lot next season. You only really need to find 1-3 guys to add to the mix considering that's already seven projected as sure-fire rotation level guys already and teams only really play like eight guys during a playoff series.

This isn't a defense of the job that Masai/Bobby/management have done in the last few years, I've called them out plenty. But Masai acknowledged that his faith in that old core didn't pay off and he hopefully learned from that. But at least to his credit he pivoted instead of doubling down and I think we'll be set-up well going forward. This is pretty much bottom right now, but that's because of injuries and because we got off to a terrible start with the old core. What's done is done but it's hardly the end of the world if we miss out on that Spurs pick. We'll either get a top six selection or get our own pick back next season in a better draft. And then that's it, we'll have our full suite of picks available to us.

Things will look brighter once we make those draft selections and we sign a few guys/make some trades in the off-season and then we'll see what happens with the draft next year. But at the very least we'll also have a few FRPs to also look forward to in 2026 and who knows how the Pacers will look by then.

Masai has shown that he can build a championship caliber team and I don't think that just goes away.

I really just don't get the crying right now.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#132 » by Duffman100 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:18 pm

Brinbe wrote:I really just don't get the crying right now.


Habits are hard to break, you train your brain to feed off of the chemicals.

Credit to some of tWo who are actually embracing this and realizing what it is.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#133 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:22 pm

The guy who traded that pick away didn't foresee us here.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#134 » by DelAbbot » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:22 pm

MDS

Masai Derangement Syndrome
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#135 » by TheGeneral99 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:23 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Brinbe wrote:I really just don't get the crying right now.


Habits are hard to break, you train your brain to feed off of the chemicals.

Credit to some of tWo who are actually embracing this and realizing what it is.


It is quite funny.

Obviously there are many posters here in favour of tanking that present their arguments in a constructive, civil and well thought out of manner.

There are others that are perpetually negative regardless of the situation and will find a way to hate no matter what.

So now despite the fact that Masai is doing exactly what TWO wanted, trading Siakam and OG, accumulating young prospects and draft picks, creating cap flexibility, developing the young players, and now tanking for hopefully a top 6 pick as well, they are angry with how bad the team is doing. Not sure what people expect right now...we are missing 3 starters (Scott, Barrett and Poeltl) and were already bad before that after trading OG and Pascal.

It's so hypocritical.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#136 » by Duffman100 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:25 pm

DelAbbot wrote:MDS

Masai Derangement Syndrome


couldn't bring yourself to respond to actually being wrong about the Tampa season eh?
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#137 » by rarefind » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:26 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
rarefind wrote:
WhatsaTDot wrote:
If we hand the Spurs a dynasty based on the #6 pick in one of the worst drafts of all time, kudos to them.


They drafted some tall French kid last year. You may have heard of him... Them having two more lottery picks the year after certainly won't help them though, right?

Also, we can keep rationalizing the trade by looking at the projected draft strength but it doesn't take away from how shortsighted the deal was.


The point being the #7 pick in this draft isn't 'short routing them to a dynasty". That dynasty is Wemby and all Wemby.


I disagree.

Some special things have to happen for a dynasty to take shape. Wemby is a no brainer, duh. Getting a lottery pick for Jakob Poeltl could very well be another. The Spurs will have a very nice pool of young players to build with or make a significant trade with. That can be said whether our pick conveys or not.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#138 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:27 pm

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Trust the process. These are the times when you see who has the intestinal fortitude to see things through. Yeah it’s not going to be pretty but rebuilding never is


Sorry, it's not a rebuild, it's a stealth tank due to injuries. Only place for a tank. We will be good next year.


Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#139 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:29 pm

We had no incentives after the 48W season. Yet, here we are.
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Re: PG: Wrecked 

Post#140 » by Fairview4Life » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:30 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:We had no incentives after the 48W season. Yet, here we are.


We had no incentive ton win after the 48 win season with the surprise rookie of the year?
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.

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