Raptors should announce retiring Vince Carter's jersey soon

[wegotthabeet]

Here are the Raptors that should have their jerseys retired:
1. Lowry
2. DeMar
3. Siakam

All of them are active.

Or more than one playoff series like Vince did in Toronto.

Don’t forget that Vince was also this franchise’s biggest unrestricted free agent signing ever, by a wide margin. And unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer.

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html

Carter, who averaged 27.6 points a game last season, will receive the maximum amount of money allowable under the league's collective bargaining agreement. The exact figure, which will be about $90 million, will not be determined until the salary cap for the 2002-3 season is set. Whatever the number, Carter, 24, will be the highest-paid athlete in Canadian history.

This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.

"It's obvious that Vince is certainly a player that qualifies for whatever the maximum allows," said Grunwald, who pumped his fists when Carter thanked him for giving him time to decide. "We've been talking about Vince, about his desire to make sure that he's happy here. We want him to be a Raptor for life."

I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

[CazOnReal]

Don’t forget that Vince was also this franchise’s biggest unrestricted free agent signing ever, by a wide margin. And unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer.

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html

Carter, who averaged 27.6 points a game last season, will receive the maximum amount of money allowable under the league's collective bargaining agreement. The exact figure, which will be about $90 million, will not be determined until the salary cap for the 2002-3 season is set. Whatever the number, Carter, 24, will be the highest-paid athlete in Canadian history.

This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.

"It's obvious that Vince is certainly a player that qualifies for whatever the maximum allows," said Grunwald, who pumped his fists when Carter thanked him for giving him time to decide. "We've been talking about Vince, about his desire to make sure that he's happy here. We want him to be a Raptor for life."

I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

[wegotthabeet]

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html


This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.



I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

I don’t get why you’re knocking a guy for signing for the max or pretending like those offers wouldn’t have been there a year later from other teams. Vince’s AAV was higher in 2001 than Lowry’s in 2014 nominally speaking. Forget that Lowry signed for less 20% of the cap and no other team came close to offering him a similar deal. And yeah he deserves some credit for not just walking like his cousin did.

[PerfectJab]

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

I don’t get why you’re knocking a guy for signing for the max or pretending like those offers wouldn’t have been there a year later from other teams. Vince’s AAV was higher in 2001 than Lowry’s in 2014 nominally speaking. Forget that Lowry signed for less 20% of the cap and no other team came close to offering him a similar deal. And yeah he deserves some credit for not just walking like his cousin did.

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

[CazOnReal]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

[wegotthabeet]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

[PerfectJab]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

Actually he signed early but would have been unrestricted, it's the same situation as Carter.

Why do you need to hate on Bosh? He gave the Raptors something to cheer about after VC left and is one of the greatest PF in Raptors history. You want to talk about bad teams, his second best player was Anthony Parker yet he carried the team to the playoffs twice! No wonder he wanted to leave, management was terrible but Like Carter it shouldn't take away from his accomplishments. Under his leadership the Raptors had the best team record up to that point and even won an Atlantic Division Championship!

I believe if Carter gets his jersey retired, Bosh deserves to get his as well:

Had 11 allstar seasons vs 8 from Carter despite playing 9 less seasons
Both had 5 allstar seasons as Raptors
Both in HOF
Both played a significant role in Raptors history. They put TORONTO ON THE MAP

[wegotthabeet]

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

Actually he signed early but would have been unrestricted, it's the same situation as Carter.

Why do you need to hate on Bosh? He gave the Raptors something to cheer about after VC left and is one of the greatest PF in Raptors history. You want to talk about bad teams, his second best player was Anthony Parker yet he carried the team to the playoffs twice! No wonder he wanted to leave, management was terrible but Like Carter it shouldn't take away from his accomplishments. Under his leadership the Raptors had the best team record up to that point and even won an Atlantic Division Championship!

I believe if Carter gets his jersey retired, Bosh deserves to get his as well:

Had 11 allstar seasons vs 8 from Carter despite playing 9 less seasons
Both had 5 allstar seasons as Raptors
Both in HOF
Both played a significant role in Raptors history. They put TORONTO ON THE MAP

no he would not have been unrestricted. he was drafted in 2003. restricted FA started after 1999. Vince & T-Mac were drafted in 1998 & 1997. their rookie contracts were grandfathered into the new CBA.

don't make **** up.

[GP2]

Hopefully none of you actually still want this to happen. I don't care about the impact of being first. Your conduct matters.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/vince-carter-reflects-on-how-toronto-raptors-career-ended

“I just feel like I handled everything the correct way,” Carter said. “I had conversations with people, and I made a decision that we’re seeing now to the 20th power.”

[Spates]

Hopefully none of you actually still want this to happen. I don't care about the impact of being first. Your conduct matters.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/vince-carter-reflects-on-how-toronto-raptors-career-ended

“I just feel like I handled everything the correct way,” Carter said. “I had conversations with people, and I made a decision that we’re seeing now to the 20th power.”

If that's his stance I hope he's satisfied with the Nets retiring his jersey. Yes, I'm sure there was a media spin denigrating him but he was also behaving like a petulant child.

[Smalltown]

he was also behaving like a petulant child.

I've never been against retiring his jersey. Even after how he left. But ya. He did act like this. Handling this the right way couldn't be further from the truth. It was handled terribly - by everyone.

[Badonkadonk]

Hopefully none of you actually still want this to happen. I don't care about the impact of being first. Your conduct matters.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/vince-carter-reflects-on-how-toronto-raptors-career-ended

“I just feel like I handled everything the correct way,” Carter said. “I had conversations with people, and I made a decision that we’re seeing now to the 20th power.”

That's such a disappointing response from Vince. Failure to acknowledge his role in the exit is just revisionist and honestly, small of him.

He didn't have to proclaim he was done with dunking in game. He didn't have to admit to John Thompson that he dogged it on TNT after the trade. He can't erase just how bad his play was that final season and how he destroyed his own value.

If that stuff happened today, with every highlight (and lowlight) getting amplified on social media, he'd have been subject to way more criticism.

Just a bad look.

[Corson27]

Lol I'm guessing nobody actually listened. In the interview he says he handled things the correct way in his mind in the offseason since he talked to his agent and talked to Rob Babcock and the management team first, and then they told him that the Raptors were going to move on and transition to Bosh. So he requested out. (This is where I argue both sides were straight up autistic because a team can have two stars so why, as a GM would you tell anyone you're transitioning; just say you're splitting shots. Alas, the GM was the worst GM in franchise history Rob Babcock (RIP) and the President was former Labatt CEO Richard Peddie). And for VC, why demand out because they want to give Bosh more shots lmao. Just dumb).

Whether that is handling things the right way is up for debate; although we now live in a world where James Harden demands to be traded every other month because he didn't get along with the ball boy or whatever. But at no point was VC talking about on court play lol

[TheGeneral99]

Lol I'm guessing nobody actually listened. In the interview he says he handled things the correct way in his mind in the offseason since he talked to his agent and talked to Rob Babcock and the management team first, and then they told him that the Raptors were going to move on and transition to Bosh. So he requested out. (This is where I argue both sides were straight up autistic because a team can have two stars so why, as a GM would you tell anyone you're transitioning; just say you're splitting shots. Alas, the GM was the worst GM in franchise history Rob Babcock (RIP) and the President was former Labatt CEO Richard Peddie). And for VC, why demand out because they want to give Bosh more shots lmao. Just dumb).

Whether that is handling things the right way is up for debate; although we now live in a world where James Harden demands to be traded every other month because he didn't get along with the ball boy or whatever. But at no point was VC talking about on court play lol

You can ask for a trade while still actually acting like a professional and playing hard.

Vince requested a trade and proceeded to act unprofessionally, deliberately playing bad and tanking any value he had for us.

[Badonkadonk]

Lol I'm guessing nobody actually listened. In the interview he says he handled things the correct way in his mind in the offseason since he talked to his agent and talked to Rob Babcock and the management team first, and then they told him that the Raptors were going to move on and transition to Bosh. So he requested out. (This is where I argue both sides were straight up autistic because a team can have two stars so why, as a GM would you tell anyone you're transitioning; just say you're splitting shots. Alas, the GM was the worst GM in franchise history Rob Babcock (RIP) and the President was former Labatt CEO Richard Peddie). And for VC, why demand out because they want to give Bosh more shots lmao. Just dumb).

Whether that is handling things the right way is up for debate; although we now live in a world where James Harden demands to be traded every other month because he didn't get along with the ball boy or whatever. But at no point was VC talking about on court play lol

LOL no.

I listened to it, and absolutely none of the above excuses him for acting like a child instead of a professional, or for deliberately not giving effort during games.

[Corson27]

Lol I'm guessing nobody actually listened. In the interview he says he handled things the correct way in his mind in the offseason since he talked to his agent and talked to Rob Babcock and the management team first, and then they told him that the Raptors were going to move on and transition to Bosh. So he requested out. (This is where I argue both sides were straight up autistic because a team can have two stars so why, as a GM would you tell anyone you're transitioning; just say you're splitting shots. Alas, the GM was the worst GM in franchise history Rob Babcock (RIP) and the President was former Labatt CEO Richard Peddie). And for VC, why demand out because they want to give Bosh more shots lmao. Just dumb).

Whether that is handling things the right way is up for debate; although we now live in a world where James Harden demands to be traded every other month because he didn't get along with the ball boy or whatever. But at no point was VC talking about on court play lol

LOL no.

I listened to it, and absolutely none of the above excuses him for acting like a child instead of a professional, or for deliberately not giving effort during games.

None of which I disputed above. He said he handled things the right away pertaining to the sequence of events in the offseason. Here is his direct quote from Youtube Transcript (VC stuttering and interviewer interjecting removed): "I just felt like I handled everything (edited) the correct way. I had conversations with people and I made a decision that we're now seeing to the 20th power. There were so many things happening behind the scenes...I thought it all through. I had conversations with my agents and the organization, and in my conversations they were ready to transition to a new guy, Chris Bosh and I said if you guys don't need me that's fine but the one thing I wasn't going to be is a locker room problem and I think that's what they were looking for."

Asking for a trade because they were transitioning to Chris Bosh is dumb as I said above. All of this also likely could have been figured out if absolute dumbasses did not run the team and without VC being so pissy about it. But he did not say he 'handled things the right way' in terms of what he did on the court or effort level or whatever other things some people project. That stuff his USG rate being career lows vs the i'm not dunking, the flare flare stuff, not trying...all of that has been debated perpetually and like all things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Tacoma]

Lol I'm guessing nobody actually listened. In the interview he says he handled things the correct way in his mind in the offseason since he talked to his agent and talked to Rob Babcock and the management team first, and then they told him that the Raptors were going to move on and transition to Bosh. So he requested out. (This is where I argue both sides were straight up autistic because a team can have two stars so why, as a GM would you tell anyone you're transitioning; just say you're splitting shots. Alas, the GM was the worst GM in franchise history Rob Babcock (RIP) and the President was former Labatt CEO Richard Peddie). And for VC, why demand out because they want to give Bosh more shots lmao. Just dumb).

Whether that is handling things the right way is up for debate; although we now live in a world where James Harden demands to be traded every other month because he didn't get along with the ball boy or whatever. But at no point was VC talking about on court play lol

LOL no.

I listened to it, and absolutely none of the above excuses him for acting like a child instead of a professional, or for deliberately not giving effort during games.

None of which I disputed above. He said he handled things the right away pertaining to the sequence of events in the offseason. Here is his direct quote from Youtube Transcript (VC stuttering and interviewer interjecting removed): "I just felt like I handled it the correct way. I had conversations with people and I made a decision that we're now seeing to the 20th power. There were so many things happening behind the scenes...I thought it all through. I had conversations with my agents and the organization, and in my conversations they were ready to transition to a new guy, Chris Bosh and I said if you guys don't need me that's fine but the one thing I wasn't going to be is a locker room problem and I think that's what they were looking for."

Asking for a trade because they were transitioning to Chris Bosh is dumb as I said above. All of this also likely could have been figured out if absolute dumbasses did not run the team and without VC being so pissy about it. But he did not say he 'handled things the right way' in terms of what he did on the court or effort level or whatever other things some people project. That stuff his USG rate being career lows vs the i'm not dunking, the flare flare stuff, not trying...all of that has been debated perpetually and like all things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The question posed to Vince was: Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in Toronto?

And his first sentence in response was "I don't know, I just felt like I handled everything the correct way." The key word there (which you left out in your quote) was "everything" which presumably includes all the other things Vince allegedly did, like dogging it, etc., which he previously denied and he alluded to that when he claimed he played better in Jersey because of Jason Kidd. Frankly, I don't buy it because he previously played better in Toronto and we didn't have Kidd.

What I don't see from Vince, frankly, has been any kind of contrition. Even if you 100% believe Vince's side of the story, there's the matter of many Toronto fans who perceived things differently, and many times perception is everything. If Vince cares at all about Toronto, then he needs to address this and make amends. Otherwise we stay at this impasse.

[Corson27]

LOL no.

I listened to it, and absolutely none of the above excuses him for acting like a child instead of a professional, or for deliberately not giving effort during games.

None of which I disputed above. He said he handled things the right away pertaining to the sequence of events in the offseason. Here is his direct quote from Youtube Transcript (VC stuttering and interviewer interjecting removed): "I just felt like I handled it the correct way. I had conversations with people and I made a decision that we're now seeing to the 20th power. There were so many things happening behind the scenes...I thought it all through. I had conversations with my agents and the organization, and in my conversations they were ready to transition to a new guy, Chris Bosh and I said if you guys don't need me that's fine but the one thing I wasn't going to be is a locker room problem and I think that's what they were looking for."

Asking for a trade because they were transitioning to Chris Bosh is dumb as I said above. All of this also likely could have been figured out if absolute dumbasses did not run the team and without VC being so pissy about it. But he did not say he 'handled things the right way' in terms of what he did on the court or effort level or whatever other things some people project. That stuff his USG rate being career lows vs the i'm not dunking, the flare flare stuff, not trying...all of that has been debated perpetually and like all things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The question posed to Vince was: Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in Toronto?

And his first sentence in response was "I don't know, I just felt like I handled everything the correct way." The key word there (which you left out in your quote) was "everything" which presumably includes all the other things Vince allegedly did, like dogging it, etc., which he previously denied and he alluded to that when he claimed he played better in Jersey because of Jason Kidd. Frankly, I don't buy it because he previously played better in Toronto and we didn't have Kidd.

What I don't see from Vince, frankly, has been any kind of contrition. Even if you 100% believe Vince's side of the story, there's the matter of many Toronto fans who perceived things differently, and many times perception is everything. If Vince cares at all about Toronto, then he needs to address this and make amends. Otherwise we stay at this impasse.

Good catch! I’ll edit the quote. However he quite literally did not mention or talk about any of those other things except for the offseason conversations he had immediately after the “I did everything right”quote. Carter’s lack of contrition, as you mentioned, is definitely a valid observation though and would be good questions for reporters to follow up on when the Raptors celebrate him this fall.

But, uh, to your 2nd point, yeah while Alvin Williams and Mark Jackson were probably better point guards than Rafer Alston and Milt Palacio when Carter was at his peak; none of them were better than Kidd, who is a Top 3-5 PG in NBA history. I don’t think you can dismiss Kidd’s contributions to the Nets in resuscitating Carter’s career and reputation.

[CazOnReal]

Let's also not forget that Vince was in the 3rd year of a 6 year max contract when he tried forcing his way off the team.

Like...say what you will about the ugly exits of guys like Shaq, hell even KD leaving in free agency to slither on over to the Dubs since they did so as a free agent, Vince was in the middle of making one of the highest AAV of any NBA player at the time and still tried to force his way off the team. Phoning it in, fighting his coach (allegedly), faking an injury, giving up the team's scheme in a game they ended up losing (allegedly), and that's just the few incidents off the top of my head.

Even if it might not have been sincere or believed by Vince, the obvious answer was "I was young and immature, my b" or some variation of that. I don't care how much one wants to blame the FO for the awful return or how they handled the Vince situation (It was very, very uncommon for franchise players to force their way off of a team while still under contract; only Barkley really stands out as a notable example of a star in their prime doing so), this is just intellectually insulting to the reality of his final season.

Genuinely? I'm almost impressed by the audacity to continue this historical revisionism of Vince's ugly ass exit.

[Corson27]

"Since then, the two sides have gone back and forth, with Irving having called Celtics fans "a scorned girlfriend," stomping on the Boston logo at centre-court and flashing a middle finger to fans during a Nets-Celtics playoff game in 2022. Boston fans have also thrown a water bottle at Irving and relentlessly booed each time he returns to the city."

Speaking of ugly exits as we get prepared to watch the NBA Finals lol.