2023-24 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V3.0

[Skybox]

Given what they traded, I don't see people lobbing offers...it's a given Masai will match and teams don't like to have their cap money tied up while big targets get signed. I've put IQ completely out of mind since the trade (for ORL)...but that will also keep the cost down a little. The problem for the NYK was matching similar offers for a backup...for TOR, I'd match nearly anything...I think it's closer to 25 per than 35.

[Rapsfan07]

Poeltl/Barnes/Barrett/IQ only played 234 minutes together and in those minutes they were a +10.8. It will be interesting to see how they mesh over a bigger sample, and how Dick plays alongside them.

One thing is for sure, they will need 48 minutes of solid rim protection just to be a mediocre defense instead of terrible, so it's important that Poeltl is healthy and they will need to add another quality defensive big to the rotation.

If that is truly the case then why did we trade for Olynyk? I wouldn't be spending anymore at the C position, that's for sure.

Depending on how things go, we might be able to find a contributor at PF in the draft or maybe we can see what we can get for something around Boucher or whatever. Memphis needs to move off some salary. Would they be willing to do something around Clarke for Boucher?

[Rapsfan07]

Given what they traded, I don't see people lobbing offers...it's a given Masai will match and teams don't like to have their cap money tied up while big targets get signed. I've put IQ completely out of mind since the trade (for ORL)...but that will also keep the cost down a little. The problem for the NYK was matching similar offers for a backup...for TOR, I'd match nearly anything...I think it's closer to 25 per than 35.

Yeah Toronto isn't going to let Quickley go. I'd love $100M/4yrs but ultimately I think it'll be somewhere around $130M/5yrs. The extra year is nice for both parties.

[OakleyDokely]

Poeltl/Barnes/Barrett/IQ only played 234 minutes together and in those minutes they were a +10.8. It will be interesting to see how they mesh over a bigger sample, and how Dick plays alongside them.

One thing is for sure, they will need 48 minutes of solid rim protection just to be a mediocre defense instead of terrible, so it's important that Poeltl is healthy and they will need to add another quality defensive big to the rotation.

If that is truly the case then why did we trade for Olynyk? I wouldn't be spending anymore at the C position, that's for sure.

Depending on how things go, we might be able to find a contributor at PF in the draft or maybe we can see what we can get for something around Boucher or whatever. Memphis needs to move off some salary. Would they be willing to do something around Clarke for Boucher?

KO can play a lot of F with a rim protecting big.

[Skybox]

Given what they traded, I don't see people lobbing offers...it's a given Masai will match and teams don't like to have their cap money tied up while big targets get signed. I've put IQ completely out of mind since the trade (for ORL)...but that will also keep the cost down a little. The problem for the NYK was matching similar offers for a backup...for TOR, I'd match nearly anything...I think it's closer to 25 per than 35.

Yeah Toronto isn't going to let Quickley go. I'd love $100M/4yrs but ultimately I think it'll be somewhere around $130M/5yrs. The extra year is nice for both parties.

I like how your Org operates...Good luck.

Send us IQ and you can recreate the infamous "Black Dick" backcourt

(if anybody believes those two teenage dipshits didn't know what they were doing )

[OAKLEY_2]

Miami are where the raptors were 2 years after the ship.

In denial.

Theyre big fish hunting for a reason.

The league sucks right now and theyre mediocre and capped out.

Knicks. Its a coin flip, but im betting on regression due to the thibs affect.

Brunson and og are like half the cap and heading for the infirmary

Being completely objective:

Rj quick wiggins barnes jakub
Dick, veteran free agent pg (malik beasley, agagi (sorry!), kelly

Thats a complete and balanced roster. The league has like 2 of those right now.

For example; that team is waaaaay better than orlando.

Seriously bro, your underestimating how bad the quality of play and teams in general are right now.

boston and the knicks are the only real teams in the east.

I think you might be overestimating the Raptors and underestimating the other teams. I agree the East is weak, but if you look at our starting 5 there
- RJ and EQ were traded for OG (who I love, but is an oft-injured potential rental). That's their value.
- Wiggins has been considered a negative in relation to contract for most of his career, and was awful last year.
- Barnes is good, but is he great? Hard to say given he's been the best player on terrible teams, but if you look at the teams above in the standings, it's pretty rare he'll be the best player on the floor.
- Jakub is a totally fine big man who can not be played in the late stages of tight games.

I mean, we won 25 game last year. Sure we were tanking, but just to not be in the to half of the play-in we have to win 20 more, with virtually the same team. Like, Orlando (who you think we're way better than) is younger, improving, and won 22 more games than us last year. How do we make that jump with Andrew Wiggins?

Is Barnes great? Well he is an allstar at the age of some people in this year's draft. Sure looks headed in that direction. Wiggins bad contract should cough up another asset. Like a pick.

[OAKLEY_2]

Boucher/McDaniels/Agbaji for Wiggins and Trayce Jackson Davis works.

GSW

I thought Agbaji was 22. He's 24. See ya.! 16 million comes off the books next offseason for GSW.

Quickley, Castle, RJ, Scottie, Poetl
Wiggins
Gradey, Kelly, Nwora, JFL, Kris Dunn

Picks #19 Tijane Salaun #31 Pacome Dadiet
Malik Williams, Kobi Simmons

[Psubs]

Boucher/McDaniels/Agbaji for Wiggins and Trayce Jackson Davis works.

GSW

I thought Agbaji was 22. He's 24. See ya.! 16 million comes off the books next offseason for GSW.

Quickley, Castle, RJ, Scottie, Poetl
Wiggins
Gradey, Kelly, Nwora, JFL, Kris Dunn

Picks #19 Tijane Salaun #31 Pacome Dadiet
Malik Williams, Kobi Simmons

TJD is GS cheap starting C going forward. GS would send Moody (Scottie's friend) since they have Podz. Scottie and Moody together might get Cade in the future to leave Detroit for Toronto.

Also someone critiqued that GS might want Bruce Brown instead of Boucher and the others.

Nwora is let go. Don't need Dunn with Castle.

Castle, Chomche and #31

PG IQ - Castle - JFL
SG Barrett - Moody
SF Wiggins - Dick
PF Barnes - Wiggins
C Poeltl/Olynyk - Chomche

[Kordic27]

Miami are where the raptors were 2 years after the ship.

In denial.

Theyre big fish hunting for a reason.

The league sucks right now and theyre mediocre and capped out.

Knicks. Its a coin flip, but im betting on regression due to the thibs affect.

Brunson and og are like half the cap and heading for the infirmary

Being completely objective:

Rj quick wiggins barnes jakub
Dick, veteran free agent pg (malik beasley, agagi (sorry!), kelly

Thats a complete and balanced roster. The league has like 2 of those right now.

For example; that team is waaaaay better than orlando.

Seriously bro, your underestimating how bad the quality of play and teams in general are right now.

boston and the knicks are the only real teams in the east.

I think you might be overestimating the Raptors and underestimating the other teams. I agree the East is weak, but if you look at our starting 5 there
- RJ and EQ were traded for OG (who I love, but is an oft-injured potential rental). That's their value.
- Wiggins has been considered a negative in relation to contract for most of his career, and was awful last year.
- Barnes is good, but is he great? Hard to say given he's been the best player on terrible teams, but if you look at the teams above in the standings, it's pretty rare he'll be the best player on the floor.
- Jakub is a totally fine big man who can not be played in the late stages of tight games.

I mean, we won 25 game last year. Sure we were tanking, but just to not be in the to half of the play-in we have to win 20 more, with virtually the same team. Like, Orlando (who you think we're way better than) is younger, improving, and won 22 more games than us last year. How do we make that jump with Andrew Wiggins?

Is Barnes great? Well he is an allstar at the age of some people in this year's draft. Sure looks headed in that direction. Wiggins bad contract should cough up another asset. Like a pick.

Somehow I find myself arguing against the Raptors. BUT, looking at a relatively recent list of top 25 players under 25, I'd put Scottie in the 10ish range. Like, Ant, Luka, Hali, Maxey, Victor, Ja are all clearly higher. He's in the mix with Chet, Paolo, Sengun, Lamello, Zion, Mobley, Cade, JJJ, Garland, Jalen Williams, Jalen Green, Hero.
SO while I like him, and I do hope he becomes a superstar, I don't have high hopes for a team where he's the best player.

[CazOnReal]

Y'all know that 5th year for Quickley is going to be a player option, right?

It's inevitable.

Also trading Ochai is really stupid at this stage. He's a good defender who needs to find his shot but there are indicators he can find it. There's no point of moving him in a salary dump when he's still got 2 more years on his rookie contract and McDaniels/Boucher/Brown all combine for around $37 million. Hell, if we're looking at Golden State specifically, they would probably prefer Boucher and Brown if they moved Wiggins (Brown + McDaniels also works for salary purposes - they're almost identical in incoming/outgoing salary for Davis + Wiggins).

Chris literally played for them before he joined the Raptors.

EDIT: Some examples of a Wiggins swap (which to be clear, I wouldn't do unless it involved Moody):

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I think GSW ask for the Det pick if they give up Moody. I think next year they actually try and play him because he played well down the last stretch of games for them

Y'all know that 5th year for

EDIT: Some examples of a Wiggins swap (which to be clear, I wouldn't do unless it involved Moody):

[bballsparkin]

IQ was my #1 trade target (for ORL) back at the TD...great pickup for TOR, imo. I'm higher on Barrett than most too.

IQ's numbers look pretty solid post-trade, but just checking in on the general satisfaction with IQ and his big incoming payday...any chance TOR would SnT for a largely pick and cap space package? Maybe dump some big salary you're not loving long term?

How about...
TOR sends IQ ($25 x 4) and Poeltl ($20 x 3)....*I'm assuming Poeltl is okay, but maybe some $$ regret(?)
ORL sends Wendell Carter ($11.5 x 2), Anthony Black, frp #18, DEN 25 frp...*Carter is younger, cheaper, shoots 3's and can switch

I don't expect IQ to be available -can't hurt to ask.

Poeltl is great. He just can't shoot or make FT's at a reliable rate. Nice trade proposal well done. Very tempting for someone like me who doesn't mind a slow rebuild. The problem is like the Magic, Toronto needs shooting. IQ provides that and in my understanding Anthony Black does not.

[bballsparkin]

Y'all know that 5th year for Quickley is going to be a player option, right?

It's inevitable.

Also trading Ochai is really stupid at this stage. He's a good defender who needs to find his shot but there are indicators he can find it. There's no point of moving him in a salary dump when he's still got 2 more years on his rookie contract and McDaniels/Boucher/Brown all combine for around $37 million. Hell, if we're looking at Golden State specifically, they would probably prefer Boucher and Brown if they moved Wiggins (Brown + McDaniels also works for salary purposes - they're almost identical in incoming/outgoing salary for Davis + Wiggins).

Chris literally played for them before he joined the Raptors.

EDIT: Some examples of a Wiggins swap (which to be clear, I wouldn't do unless it involved Moody):

Spoiler:

I like the second one. Wiggins and Moody for BB and Boucher. Seems like a winner for both sides. Though I'm not great at the cap. I'll get that in before the Wiggins haters go at me.

[CazOnReal]

I think GSW ask for the Det pick if they give up Moody. I think next year they actually try and play him because he played well down the last stretch of games for them

Playing well has only ever rewarded Moses Moody with the NBA equivalent of when your coworker gets a raise/promotion just because he likes them more than you despite working twice as hard.

And yes, Steve Kerr is that loathsome hypothetical boss in this case. Moody scores 15 in 15 and Kerr decides to bench him so Klay can lose him the game? Get Moses out of there to a team that will reward him for playing well. The franchise clearly doesn't value Moody and with him being a pending RFA next offseason/the Warriors in need of cutting salary, I would be shocked if he's still on the roster to start the next season.

EDIT: I forgot about Chris Paul. Yeah, you could do CP3 + Moody for Brown + Boucher as well but it doesn't save as much money for Golden State, plus if you're trying to make it a draft day trade i'm pretty sure you might need to do something with that Warriors 2nd rounder in the 50s.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I think GSW ask for the Det pick if they give up Moody. I think next year they actually try and play him because he played well down the last stretch of games for them

Playing well has only ever rewarded Moses Moody with the NBA equivalent of when your coworker gets a raise/promotion just because he likes them more than you despite working twice as hard.

And yes, Steve Kerr is that loathsome hypothetical boss in this case. Moody scores 15 in 15 and Kerr decides to bench him so Klay can lose him the game? Get Moses out of there to a team that will reward him for playing well. The franchise clearly doesn't value Moody and with him being a pending RFA next offseason/the Warriors in need of cutting salary, I would be shocked if he's still on the roster to start the next season.

EDIT: I forgot about Chris Paul. Yeah, you could do CP3 + Moody for Brown + Boucher as well but it doesn't save as much money for Golden State, plus if you're trying to make it a draft day trade i'm pretty sure you might need to do something with that Warriors 2nd rounder in the 50s.

I think his value is still positive around the league so dumping him to get off Wiggins is shortsighted. Additionally I think the Warriors are looking to shed salary AND compete. Wiggins and Moody for as poor overall they’ve been are better on paper than BB and Boucher. That’s why I feel they’d at least want the sweetener of the 31st pick to draft a ready to play senior.

As TOR we aren’t spending much outside of IQ so I wouldn’t mind taking the Wiggins contract and moving Barrett to the 2. He could also come off the bench if we decide to start Gary instead for more shooting. Having two vets in Wiggins and Kelly, + two recent lottery pick shooters in Moody and Dick Would be a great bench. If we draft someone like Castle he would fit nicely as the point guard next to the bench guys I just named.

I would pick 31 if it meant we could get Moody

[islandboy53]

I think GSW ask for the Det pick if they give up Moody. I think next year they actually try and play him because he played well down the last stretch of games for them

Playing well has only ever rewarded Moses Moody with the NBA equivalent of when your coworker gets a raise/promotion just because he likes them more than you despite working twice as hard.

And yes, Steve Kerr is that loathsome hypothetical boss in this case. Moody scores 15 in 15 and Kerr decides to bench him so Klay can lose him the game? Get Moses out of there to a team that will reward him for playing well. The franchise clearly doesn't value Moody and with him being a pending RFA next offseason/the Warriors in need of cutting salary, I would be shocked if he's still on the roster to start the next season.

EDIT: I forgot about Chris Paul. Yeah, you could do CP3 + Moody for Brown + Boucher as well but it doesn't save as much money for Golden State, plus if you're trying to make it a draft day trade i'm pretty sure you might need to do something with that Warriors 2nd rounder in the 50s.

I don't see GS as a workable partner. If they want to hang onto Thompson and get under the 2nd apron, which I think they do, they can't replace CP3 and Moody with Brown & Boucher. Letting Paul go gives them some flexibility on both counts. At the same time, Moody isn't enough compensation to take on 3 years of Wiggins, whose salary will severely restrict our flexibility after next season.

There are a number of teams to potentially send Brown to, including Sacramento and Houston. Another option is Dallas, who will have to replace Derrick Jones Jr next year. The Mavericks could send back THJ and Powell, along with our 2025 2nd. Dallas replaces Jones with Brown, who can be allowed to expire, or resigned at likely much less than his current salary. Green & Hardy can replace THJ's regular season contributions for them, while we take on Powell's 2 years at $4 million to keep them under the 1st apron, which is why Dallas sends the 2nd. Powell gives us a bit of big man depth, and will be expiring next season. Hardaway can replace Trent in the short term, or be flipped elsewhere for additional assets.

[Rapsfan07]

IQ was my #1 trade target (for ORL) back at the TD...great pickup for TOR, imo. I'm higher on Barrett than most too.

IQ's numbers look pretty solid post-trade, but just checking in on the general satisfaction with IQ and his big incoming payday...any chance TOR would SnT for a largely pick and cap space package? Maybe dump some big salary you're not loving long term?

How about...
TOR sends IQ ($25 x 4) and Poeltl ($20 x 3)....*I'm assuming Poeltl is okay, but maybe some $$ regret(?)
ORL sends Wendell Carter ($11.5 x 2), Anthony Black, frp #18, DEN 25 frp...*Carter is younger, cheaper, shoots 3's and can switch

I don't expect IQ to be available -can't hurt to ask.

Poeltl is great. He just can't shoot or make FT's at a reliable rate. Nice trade proposal well done. Very tempting for someone like me who doesn't mind a slow rebuild. The problem is like the Magic, Toronto needs shooting. IQ provides that and in my understanding Anthony Black does not.

That's a horrendous deal for Toronto.

I have Quickley as an all-star/borderline all-star kind of player in his prime. Meanwhile, Poeltl is good, defensive-minded starting calibre C that's locked up to a pretty team friendly contract. Why is Toronto moving that for Carter, Black (who can't shoot and is very raw) and two late FRPs? That's the definition of spinning the wheel and all for no reason.

I wouldn't mind adding Carter but I don't want to trade a first for him and that's probably going to be his straight up value to the Magic so this would be a non-starter for me.

[Rapsfan07]

I think GSW ask for the Det pick if they give up Moody. I think next year they actually try and play him because he played well down the last stretch of games for them

Playing well has only ever rewarded Moses Moody with the NBA equivalent of when your coworker gets a raise/promotion just because he likes them more than you despite working twice as hard.

And yes, Steve Kerr is that loathsome hypothetical boss in this case. Moody scores 15 in 15 and Kerr decides to bench him so Klay can lose him the game? Get Moses out of there to a team that will reward him for playing well. The franchise clearly doesn't value Moody and with him being a pending RFA next offseason/the Warriors in need of cutting salary, I would be shocked if he's still on the roster to start the next season.

EDIT: I forgot about Chris Paul. Yeah, you could do CP3 + Moody for Brown + Boucher as well but it doesn't save as much money for Golden State, plus if you're trying to make it a draft day trade i'm pretty sure you might need to do something with that Warriors 2nd rounder in the 50s.

Yeah, the thing is that moving Paul doesn't really save GSW any long term money. They would be better off moving Wiggins and then breaking Paul's salary up into smaller pieces via trade. Perhaps there's some salary that teams might want to get off of an GSW could use the depth?

Either way, for Toronto, if we're going to spend that money it makes a lot more sense to spend it on a position that we actually need to fill. Not to mention, GSW likely won't attach assets to a contract that's already expiring.

[bballsparkin]

That's a horrendous deal for Toronto.

I have Quickley as an all-star/borderline all-star kind of player in his prime. Meanwhile, Poeltl is good, defensive-minded starting calibre C that's locked up to a pretty team friendly contract. Why is Toronto moving that for Carter, Black (who can't shoot and is very raw) and two late FRPs? That's the definition of spinning the wheel and all for no reason.

I wouldn't mind adding Carter but I don't want to trade a first for him and that's probably going to be his straight up value to the Magic so this would be a non-starter for me.

Fair. I'm not sure I see an all-star in IQ. Although I'd love to be wrong. Black was the 6th overall pick in a deep draft so it's too early to give up on him. Although, I agree with the can't shoot part. I guess it would depend if the pick conveys or not. As the trade would be good for next year's pick if the Raptors still have it. That Nuggets pick would likely be a very high FRP so perhaps a little misleading though.

edit: I guess I should have wrote a very low FRP. Ultimately I wouldn't do it because of fit. Black, Barnes and RJ is not good together. But I'd love to get a young player like Black to come of the bench with Gradey.

[ConSarnit]

Given what they traded, I don't see people lobbing offers...it's a given Masai will match and teams don't like to have their cap money tied up while big targets get signed. I've put IQ completely out of mind since the trade (for ORL)...but that will also keep the cost down a little. The problem for the NYK was matching similar offers for a backup...for TOR, I'd match nearly anything...I think it's closer to 25 per than 35.

Yeah Toronto isn't going to let Quickley go. I'd love $100M/4yrs but ultimately I think it'll be somewhere around $130M/5yrs. The extra year is nice for both parties.

If I'm Quickley I'm not taking a 5 year deal. With the tv deal leaks coming out it looks like the cap is going up 10% a year for the next 4-5 years. If I'm Quickley I want a 3+1 (doubt he gets it) so I can get back out there at age 27 when the cap is going to be $185m+.

On 5/130 deal Quickley ends up making the equivalent of $18m in todays dollar in his final year. I'd imagine he thinks he's worth more than that.

The rising cap should make players think long and hard about locking themselves into 5 year deals.