The Rob Dillingham Thread

[GopherIt!]

I hope I am wrong, but I am sure I am not:


This kid is a guranteed flop. Everything about his game except ball handling has too much question marks imo.

Maybe he is not the PG that we are looking for. Just a point scorer like Clarkson or Isaiah Thomas (the short one). I haven't watched him this year but he just doesn't seem to have a good grasp of where the play should be.

Lou Williams

[winforlose]

Dilly so far is 10/29 from the field and 5 of 12 from deep. He has scored 30 points on 29 shots. An offensive weapon… not convinced yet.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Tonight was better for the playmaking part. His shooting is still miles away from Mike level and so is his defense. But he improve.

[minimus]

Next step for Rob and Rocco - Gortat sceens.

Read on Twitter

[Dewey]

Rob reminds me of a dog catching a car … now what? He can come off a screen and separate with ease, but then starts thinking too much. He needs more experience reading the defensive reactions. Some improvements already and they will become more decisive and natural as the season goes.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

Kinda cool the wolves have diversified the ways Rob Dillingham has been asked to play PG by game

Game 1 — heavy PnR usage as the primary initiator in the halfcourt
Game 2 — more traditional pg play, just getting them into action
Game 3 — playing more off-ball than the first two games, playing off of Shannon, who is functioning as the primary initiator

[WolfAddict]

Read on Twitter

Kinda cool the wolves have diversified the ways Rob Dillingham has been asked to play PG by game

Game 1 — heavy PnR usage as the primary initiator in the halfcourt
Game 2 — more traditional pg play, just getting them into action
Game 3 — playing more off-ball than the first two games, playing off of Shannon, who is functioning as the primary initiator

Good development for him - Gets a few more arrows in the quiver - Thanks for sharing

[Slim Tubby]

Read on Twitter

Kinda cool the wolves have diversified the ways Rob Dillingham has been asked to play PG by game

Game 1 — heavy PnR usage as the primary initiator in the halfcourt
Game 2 — more traditional pg play, just getting them into action
Game 3 — playing more off-ball than the first two games, playing off of Shannon, who is functioning as the primary initiator

Interesting take...thanks for posting.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM Forums mobile app

[TheZachAttack]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

[KGdaBom]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

It's fashionable to diss on Dilly. He shot crazy good in college on limited sample size and now he's shooting very poorly on limited sample size. He gets a lot of TOs in SL that would not be TOs if playing with better players. I hope and believe he will prove his detractors more wrong than right.

[Klomp]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

Basketball analysis has often become un-nuanced and takes rely heavily on a player's instant "impact". Since Dillingham didn't really play as a rookie, he sucks.

[Norseman79]

He was the 8 pick in the draft last year, he should be as dominant as TSJ minimum in these games. He barely stands out. I see little to nothing on defense. His scoring hasn't been good. He has a great handle when he doesn't over do it and seems to hustle at least. If he was a second rounder, I'd be ok with him continuing to develop in Iowa and seeing what happens.

***Edit - not just the 8 pick, we traded up to get him at 8***

[gandlogo]

Shifty is a scoring guard trapped in a ball boy's body.

[winforlose]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

Imagine you are struggling to stay afloat in the kiddy pool, how well will you do in the deep end. These defenders are not just weak, they are sub NBA in most cases. Dilly is struggling to get by them, struggling to throw a lob, struggling to direct his fellow players, and struggling from inside the arc. He is literally shooting 17/46 for summer league with 12/34 from inside the arc.

Your problem is you are looking at him playing against bad competition and saying well he isn’t the worst. The rest of are asking can he start a playoff game, or even a regular season game, and survive Jaylen Wells, or Alex Caruso, or even someone simpler like NAW pressuring him. It is true that his teammates will be better outside of summer league, but the scheme not so much. Finch doesn’t run a lot of set offense, and in a chaos environment Dilly needs a higher level of skill and understanding at the PG which mirrors the disorganization of the SL. We are not seeing a towering Dilly clearly a level above the competition. We see that in TSJ, but not Dilly.

Regarding Dilly’s defense, bad is generous. In game 3 we saw time and time again players going around him. We saw JB struggle to pick up his slack and get 7 fouls. If Dilly cannot defend at this level, can he defend at the NBA level? If he cannot, who can he play with. Is he exclusive to Rudy? What if Mike goes down, now what? It isn’t just an evaluation of Dilly at his current skill level, it is an evaluation relative to his projected role. Dilly might be fine in two years, but in two months (really closer to 3 for the regular season, I am including training camp and preseason,) he is not looking good.

[winforlose]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

Basketball analysis has often become un-nuanced and takes rely heavily on a player's instant "impact". Since Dillingham didn't really play as a rookie, he sucks.

This take is LAZY! You are watching him struggle with every aspect of his game. In this league the truly NBA ready players shine. Ron Holland looked great, TSJ has been looking great, ect… Dilly is a 2nd year player, a #8 overall, and is struggling with shooting, passing, and rebounding. He is getting cooked defensively, and is not consistently a difference maker. Think of it is this way, when TSJ is on the bench, everything looks different. When Dilly is on the bench, it is much less pronounced.

[Klomp]

I don't think I have ever been more confused around a discussion for a player than Dillingham. Is it not obvious every single game that Dillingham already brings 4-5 things to the table that he's either the best or second best on the Wolves at?

I keep seeing comments about struggles as a PG. I think I must be lost. Rob is heads and shoulders the best initiator, transition ball handler, and pace generator on the team. He has a ton of Halliburton in him. When he's initiating the game immediately tilts energy wise towards the Wolves, everyone starts to run in a transition, and you get that swarm feeling that the Pacers have.

The majority of turnovers he has are either because he likely to make flashy passes and/or he's trying to be aggressive and push and go. I actually am not even sure (within reason) it matters at all how he shoots or how many turnovers he has. The Wolves struggled a ton in creating easy baskets, in being the team that controlled the pace ,and energy, and didn't have easy ways to flip that switch.

Rob is a one man switch.And the end result in terms of the energy, pace, and tone created is one of the most valuable and hard to come by "team" skill that isn't shown directly in a box sheet. We all have watched a ton of games now where the Wolves systematically are begging and screaming for this type of player and the addition of this type of flow into their system. I would go so far as to say one of the bigges reasons they have lost the last 2 years in the playoffs is the lack of this element in their game.

I quite literally think this addition of this skill to the Wolves rotation is arguably the most important and biggest improvement? I not only don't think Rob is bad in this area I think he's one of the best players in the NBA in this area. Further, the majority of his turnovers and even many of his misses come from his foot on the gear and trying to go 1:1 in transition while his defender has an angle or something happening because of that pace. I think these are a byproduct of the 9 out of 10 possessions where this style positively adds not just to Rob's game but everyone on the floor. To the extent that he's inefficient it's the D Lo in his game where he's reliant largely on making tough half court jumpers off the dribble.

What we are talking about here with his scoring and some of the nuances of his half court game that he struggles largely because of a lack of strength is the difference between a good rotation player and starting to move towards border-line allstar. I think I must just watch the game through a completely different lens and prioritize/have certain biases.

Basketball analysis has often become un-nuanced and takes rely heavily on a player's instant "impact". Since Dillingham didn't really play as a rookie, he sucks.

This take is LAZY! You are watching him struggle with every aspect of his game. In this league the truly NBA ready players shine. Ron Holland looked great, TSJ has been looking great, ect… Dilly is a 2nd year player, a #8 overall, and is struggling with shooting, passing, and rebounding. He is getting cooked defensively, and is not consistently a difference maker. Think of it is this way, when TSJ is on the bench, everything looks different. When Dilly is on the bench, it is much less pronounced.

No, the analysis is not just saying that he isn't NBA ready. It is saying he sucks and/or he's a bust based solely on the franchise being patient with his development.

NO ONE realistically thought he should be ready to come in and start and dominate on a Western Conference Finals team, yet that is the expectation placed on him through lazy analysis. It is that ESPN-style lazy analysis that is truly damaging to the league.

Players should not all be judged on the same scale. If Anthony Edwards were judged after his rookie year based solely on being a No. 1 pick, he would be exiled from the league because his rookie season is not as dominant as LeBron James was. That is not much different than what you are doing here. Since he was a Top 10 pick, it means he must dominate in your eyes. You are saying a small 19-year old point guard should have equal expectations to physically dominate summer league as a 25-year old wing is doing. That is not fair to Dillingham at all.

[Klomp]

We sat through decades of lazy "he's a bust" takes. It's fun to throw them around, but when you've been around these forums as long as I have been, you start to gain a better clarity for what really is a bust, what was just a bad pick altogether, and who might just need a larger or different opportunity.

"Bust" should be reserved for lottery draft picks who don't even make it to a second NBA contract (Year 5). Those are 100% busts.

[winforlose]

Basketball analysis has often become un-nuanced and takes rely heavily on a player's instant "impact". Since Dillingham didn't really play as a rookie, he sucks.

This take is LAZY! You are watching him struggle with every aspect of his game. In this league the truly NBA ready players shine. Ron Holland looked great, TSJ has been looking great, ect… Dilly is a 2nd year player, a #8 overall, and is struggling with shooting, passing, and rebounding. He is getting cooked defensively, and is not consistently a difference maker. Think of it is this way, when TSJ is on the bench, everything looks different. When Dilly is on the bench, it is much less pronounced.

No, the analysis is not just saying that he isn't NBA ready. It is saying he sucks and/or he's a bust based solely on the franchise being patient with his development.

NO ONE realistically thought he should be ready to come in and start and dominate on a Western Conference Finals team, yet that is the expectation placed on him through lazy analysis. It is that ESPN-style lazy analysis that is truly damaging to the league.

Players should not all be judged on the same scale. If Anthony Edwards were judged after his rookie year based solely on being a No. 1 pick, he would be exiled from the league because his rookie season is not as dominant as LeBron James was. That is not much different than what you are doing here. Since he was a Top 10 pick, it means he must dominate in your eyes. You are saying a small 19-year old point guard should have equal expectations to physically dominate summer league as a 25-year old wing is doing. That is not fair to Dillingham at all.

When we traded DLO, we didn’t just trade a player, we traded the salary slot that he represented. Mike was older, on a deal with only one year left, and not the long term PG solution. We already had KAT and Rudy on max deals, and Ant, Jaden, and Naz were all gonna need money. So we were kinda stuck. Then we extended Mike cheap and that salary slot went away. WMJ was supposed to be the solution to the question of PGOF. The problem was WMJ sucked. This left us with a problem and limited solutions. We traded for Dilly to solve that problem. Many, including myself thought this was a bad solution. We said how can you go into 24/25 with only Mike and Dilly at PG. Then we traded KAT, and acquired DDV. We spent all of 24/25 realizing TC failed a third time at PGOF. Now we have no good options at PG 1 or PG 2 and are looking at a wasted year. This is why I want TC fired. He botched our one chance at a balanced roster by trading KAT without bringing back a high end PG. You think PG is overrated, that is your opinion. My opinion is that Dilly is not ready, Mike is not viable anymore, and we are ****ed.

P.S. The Dilly isn’t dominating is in the context of not being ready yet, at least from me.

[Klomp]

This take is LAZY! You are watching him struggle with every aspect of his game. In this league the truly NBA ready players shine. Ron Holland looked great, TSJ has been looking great, ect… Dilly is a 2nd year player, a #8 overall, and is struggling with shooting, passing, and rebounding. He is getting cooked defensively, and is not consistently a difference maker. Think of it is this way, when TSJ is on the bench, everything looks different. When Dilly is on the bench, it is much less pronounced.

No, the analysis is not just saying that he isn't NBA ready. It is saying he sucks and/or he's a bust based solely on the franchise being patient with his development.

NO ONE realistically thought he should be ready to come in and start and dominate on a Western Conference Finals team, yet that is the expectation placed on him through lazy analysis. It is that ESPN-style lazy analysis that is truly damaging to the league.

Players should not all be judged on the same scale. If Anthony Edwards were judged after his rookie year based solely on being a No. 1 pick, he would be exiled from the league because his rookie season is not as dominant as LeBron James was. That is not much different than what you are doing here. Since he was a Top 10 pick, it means he must dominate in your eyes. You are saying a small 19-year old point guard should have equal expectations to physically dominate summer league as a 25-year old wing is doing. That is not fair to Dillingham at all.

When we traded DLO, we didn’t just trade a player, we traded the salary slot that he represented. Mike was older, on a deal with only one year left, and not the long term PG solution. We already had KAT and Rudy on max deals, and Ant, Jaden, and Naz were all gonna need money. So we were kinda stuck. Then we extended Mike cheap and that salary slot went away. WMJ was supposed to be the solution to the question of PGOF. The problem was WMJ sucked. This left us with a problem and limited solutions. We traded for Dilly to solve that problem. Many, including myself thought this was a bad solution. We said how can you go into 24/25 with only Mike and Dilly at PG. Then we traded KAT, and acquired DDV. We spent all of 24/25 realizing TC failed a third time at PGOF. Now we have no good options at PG 1 or PG 2 and are looking at a wasted year. This is why I want TC fired. He botched our one chance at a balanced roster by trading KAT without bringing back a high end PG. You think PG is overrated, that is your opinion. My opinion is that Dilly is not ready, Mike is not viable anymore, and we are ****ed.

P.S. The Dilly isn’t dominating is in the context of not being ready yet, at least from me.

What is the last word of the acronym PGOF? I thought it meant FUTURE, not FIRST year, but maybe I'm mistaken.

And I don't think I've ever said PG is overrated. I just don't think the skills required from the position in Finch's system match what people normally think of when judging PGs. That's why it needs to be a more nuanced conversation.

[winforlose]

We sat through decades of lazy "he's a bust" takes. It's fun to throw them around, but when you've been around these forums as long as I have been, you start to gain a better clarity for what really is a bust, what was just a bad pick altogether, and who might just need a larger or different opportunity.

"Bust" should be reserved for lottery draft picks who don't even make it to a second NBA contract (Year 5). Those are 100% busts.

Unfortunately the Wolves have plenty of experience with those too. Dilly might be ready in 27/28, but he is not likely an impact player in 25/26. If he isn’t then that means we need to bring someone in to fill PG 1 or PG 2 or risk a losing season. That means trading either Randle or DDV for a PG, and that is not a trade from a position of strength. You are involved in all these discussions yet you deliberately refuse to include the context they are obviously being included in. What is up with that?