Cam Whitmore

[payitforward]

Cam has not been much of a success in his first two NBA seasons. I don't think that statement is particularly controversial.

OTOH, he had a productive 10-minute outing vs the Knicks, making 3 of 4 shots (including a 3-pointer) for 7 points. After an equally good effort vs Toronto.

I think maybe we can wait a few more games before coming to judgment on this young man, don't you?

[AFM]

He and Tre Johnson both look like busts to me. Sorry, not impressed.

[nate33]

I don't want to overreact to 2 preseason games. But, I've been less than impressed with Cam Whitmore.

Unless he has the ball in his hands, dude pretty much just stands around. Very little movement or action. Not seeing much hustle or motor. Little to none off ball movement. Pretty much just finds a spot on the floor and stands there.

Maybe he's still learning the system and his teammates. But compared to some others that seem to be fighting for roles and playing time on this team (RILEY, Bagley, Jones, Champagnie, Tre....), Whitmore is starting to look like a square peg that needs to fit in a round hole.

Not sure if its an inability to read the floor, a lack of effort, or a too cool for school attitude.

Considering this is supposed to be his 2nd chance, I'm just not seeing the energy or the passion I was hoping for.

Cam has not been much of a success in his first two NBA seasons. I don't think that statement is particularly controversial.

OTOH, he had a productive 10-minute outing vs the Knicks, making 3 of 4 shots (including a 3-pointer) for 7 points. After an equally good effort vs Toronto.

I think maybe we can wait a few more games before coming to judgment on this young man, don't you?

I think Superballman's observation about Whitmore's lack of movement has some merit. I noted after the first preseason game against Toronto that Whitmore played 7 minutes in the first half and literally only touched the ball once on offense.

It looks like Keefe isn't really utilizing Whitmore as a ball handler and primary initiator like he does with Bub, CJ, Tre and Kyshawn. Whitmore is being used in more of an off-ball spacer role like how Kispert and Champagnie are used. It's probably substantially different than the sets that Whitmore got used to running in Houston and Whitmore doesn't have a feel for it yet. Ultimately, that role is probably good for Whitmore because he's a good shooter and should be excellent at attacking closeouts with his athleticism, but he is going to have to figure how to move and cut at the right times to get open. Hopefully, he will learn from Kispert, who is one of the best cutters in the league.

It would be pretty neat if Whitmore can become a bigger, stronger, better-defending version of Kispert.

[payitforward]

nate -- what a cool idea!

[DCZards]

Cam has not been much of a success in his first two NBA seasons. I don't think that statement is particularly controversial.

OTOH, he had a productive 10-minute outing vs the Knicks, making 3 of 4 shots (including a 3-pointer) for 7 points. After an equally good effort vs Toronto.

I think maybe we can wait a few more games before coming to judgment on this young man, don't you?

I suggest we wait a few more months.

[doclinkin]

It looks like Keefe isn't really utilizing Whitmore as a ball handler and primary initiator like he does with Bub, CJ, Tre and Kyshawn. Whitmore is being used in more of an off-ball spacer role like how Kispert and Champagnie are used. It's probably substantially different than the sets that Whitmore got used to running in Houston and Whitmore doesn't have a feel for it yet. Ultimately, that role is probably good for Whitmore because he's a good shooter and should be excellent at attacking closeouts with his athleticism, but he is going to have to figure how to move and cut at the right times to get open. Hopefully, he will learn from Kispert, who is one of the best cutters in the league.

It would be pretty neat if Whitmore can become a bigger, stronger, better-defending version of Kispert.

I don’t think it’s his strength. And I think that’s what has sold him short at every stop including college. Agreed that an off ball team based game with movement and off screens looks like it’d be a great fit with his other strengths. But I don’t think you can cite the 2 smartest BBIQ players in the team and say: play like them. Champagnie and Kispert succeed because their play-recognition speed is quicker than most. Kispert on cuts, JC on everything.

If you want the most out of Cam I think you have to feature him. Work him into switches where he can blow past a big or power through a lesser player. He has an advantage in 1-on-1 play. Give him a few each game to get him focused. Strong chance his defense even will pick up.

Team ball wise I regret that he hasn’t worked with Sarr much. Searching hustle stats revealed Alex was among the league leaders in screen assists last year. He’s not vocal enough to direct Cam where and when to go, but if these two could develop chemistry then CW would be hell to stop. Sarr setting a sticky screen, Cam blasting past the big to the unguarded paint. Nobody is switching to take a charge from that.

[payitforward]

Cam has not been much of a success in his first two NBA seasons. I don't think that statement is particularly controversial.

OTOH, he had a productive 10-minute outing vs the Knicks, making 3 of 4 shots (including a 3-pointer) for 7 points. After an equally good effort vs Toronto.

I think maybe we can wait a few more games before coming to judgment on this young man, don't you?

I suggest we wait a few more months.

Yes of course; I was having fun at the expense of the early certainty contingent....

[payitforward]

...worked with Sarr much. Searching hustle stats revealed Alex was among the league leaders in screen assists last year. He’s not vocal enough to direct Cam where and when to go, but if these two could develop chemistry then CW would be hell to stop. Sarr setting a sticky screen, Cam blasting past the big to the unguarded paint. Nobody is switching to take a charge from that.

I like it!

[GoneShammGone]

Cam was in street clothes last night. Anybody catch the reason? Based on last night's rotation, looks like Cam isn't in the current top9. When Bilal comes back, presumably he isn't even in the top10. He will have to displace Corey or JC. I could see him pushing Corey to the bench, but JC just plays so effectively and I think the coaching staff knows it. Plus it looks like Will Riley will be pushing for minutes.

Obviously Bub's injury creates some uncertainty, and I do expect them to rest Middleton on back-to-backs, so that will create some slight opportunity for Cam, but right now it looks like he is on the outside looking in.

[dckingsfan]

Cam was in street clothes last night. Anybody catch the reason? Based on last night's rotation, looks like Cam isn't in the current top9. When Bilal comes back, presumably he isn't even in the top10. He will have to displace Corey or JC. I could see him pushing Corey to the bench, but JC just plays so effectively and I think the coaching staff knows it. Plus it looks like Will Riley will be pushing for minutes.

Obviously Bub's injury creates some uncertainty, and I do expect them to rest Middleton on back-to-backs, so that will create some slight opportunity for Cam, but right now it looks like he is on the outside looking in.

It is an ankle injury, back by the first game.

I think one should look at this in a different light. I think the rotation will indeed be 10 deep. Additionally, I don't see CJ or McCollum playing more than 60 games. I am also skeptical that Bilal and Sarr will make it through the entire season.

What does this mean? I think all of our young players (everyone from Champagnie and younger) will get ample time on the court. Now to some degree, how they use specific players will dictate their success or lack therein.

Cam will get his chances.

[dobrojim]

[snip]

It looks like Keefe isn't really utilizing Whitmore as a ball handler and primary initiator like he does with Bub, CJ, Tre and Kyshawn. Whitmore is being used in more of an off-ball spacer role like how Kispert and Champagnie are used. It's probably substantially different than the sets that Whitmore got used to running in Houston and Whitmore doesn't have a feel for it yet. Ultimately, that role is probably good for Whitmore because he's a good shooter and should be excellent at attacking closeouts with his athleticism, but he is going to have to figure how to move and cut at the right times to get open. Hopefully, he will learn from Kispert, who is one of the best cutters in the league.

It would be pretty neat if Whitmore can become a bigger, stronger, better-defending version of Kispert.

It's obviously early days but Riley also seems to have a really good feel for those skills.

[closg00]

Cam is a muscled mass, weighing more than any player on the team.

Read on Twitter

[AFM]

He grew 2 inches in a few months?

[tontoz]

He grew 2 inches in a few months?

They weren't supposed to list player heights with shoes any more. The NBA came out a couple years ago and said they would stop that.

[nate33]

Cam is a muscled mass, weighing more than any player on the team.

Read on Twitter

Those appear to be listed heights, which are heights while wearing shoes. So subtract maybe 1.25" from the listed measurement. I say this because guys like Corey Kispert are also listed an inch taller than their combine measurements, and I'm pretty sure Kispert didn't grow an inch after being drafted as a 22-year-old. Oh yeah, and according to this, 24-year-old Jamir Watkins has grown 2 inches since the combine 5 months ago, which clearly didn't happen.

Here are the combine measurements for the players mentioned, no shoes:
Sarr 6'-11.75"
Riley 6'-8.25"
Kyshawn 6'-7"

So it appears that Kyshawn may have grown an inch and Riley maybe a half-inch. Sarr probably hasn't grown at all - maybe a quarter-inch.

The news here are the weights. It's definitely encouraging to see that some guys have put on some weight. Sarr is up 12 pounds from his Combine weight 17 months ago. Coulibaly is 9 pounds heavier than his draft weight. Vukcevic is up 18 pounds. Tre is up 6 pounds. Whitmore is a tank. Interestingly, Kyshawn is only up 3 pounds from his Combine weight even though he looks physically stronger and is probably taller. Bub is only up 1 pound.

[The Consiglieri]

Why would they give revised height measurements with freaking shoes, a few months after they were accurately measured? WTF are we doing? I'm not enraged, but this should be basic, like the NFL combine. There's a reason .05 seconds are added to pro day 40's versus combine 40's after all. Enough with the freaking shoes. Clown show combine (players not fudging standing reach and vertical leap too lol).

[doclinkin]

Who cares. They don’t play barefoot. It does add to standing reach. Nobody is wearing stack heels for vanity. They’re measured in the shoes and orthotics etc they lace up to play the game. Nobody is lying to you to trick you. Riley is legitimately tall and young and likely still growing. Same way both Kyshawn and Bilal have truly added height since the combine. And even Bub looks almost as tall as Kispert out there. Only thing that matters is how tall they are against opponents. George came out of college as a guard but was playing as a PF in FIBA play and preseason this year. Benefit of drafting youth. They’re gonna get bigger.

[The Consiglieri]

Who cares. They don’t play barefoot. It does add to standing reach. Nobody is wearing stack heels for vanity. They’re measured in the shoes and orthotics etc they lace up to play the game. Nobody is lying to you to trick you. Riley is legitimately tall and young and likely still growing. Same way both Kyshawn and Bilal have truly added height since the combine. And even Bub looks almost as tall as Kispert out there. Only thing that matters is how tall they are against opponents. George came out of college as a guard but was playing as a PF in FIBA play and preseason this year. Benefit of drafting youth. They’re gonna get bigger.

It's simple, find out actually how tall they are, period. Get accurate measurements. Full Stop. That's why it matters. Who knows wtf shoe somebody's wearing and how much it adds.

Measure without shoes. It's not a big ask, remotely.
Just figure it out. If you measure all players without shoes, you get accurate measurements always, if you allow shoes you do not. Case closed. It's simple. It's not the biggest thing in the world, but its so freaking basic, how hard is it to just get them measured in their feet, and then when you measure later after rookie year, after year 2 whatever, same, and you can figure out how much growth you're seeing, and from what baseline its coming from. Let them fiddle with shoes and your data no longer is reliable across all prospects. It's really simple, not a huge issue, I admit, but inaccurate anything when it comes to a data set you can easily make accurate should not be a big problem to solve.

Off hand talk about Bub not really directed at you:

I am pleased some of these guys appear to be growing, supposedly that was one of the nicer side bits of the profiles from the '24 class, was the growth potential, especially with Bub. One of my pet arguments with Bub has been that at least part of the reason he's not remotely good enough going inside is that he had an insanely distorted growth rate profile where basically he was a tiny lilliputian Guard until he was a Junior in high school when he had an insane growth spurt that continued through college and into his time with us. Smallest guy on the court growing up through sophomore year in high school. So he has a small guys mentality, in a big and growing guards body. Let's see if he develops more of an inside game as he continues to grow and becomes more comfortable with being an actual big dude. But I could be wrong, it could just be he's not athletic enough AND his mentality is an issue. I just think there's more of a chance than you'd normally imagine w/a guy who doesn't go inside, because there's a narrative we have that could explain why its a current problem and why it might not always be a problem. We'll see.

[AFM]

Every team in the league measures with shoes on. That’s the standard. Yes it’s silly to me, but the Wizards aren’t doing anything different.

The only time the are measured barefoot is at the combine.

[tontoz]

Every team in the league measures with shoes on. That’s the standard.

No it's really not. The NBA came out in 2019 and said that teams were required to report player heights without shoes. I am sure that is why they stopped measuring guys with shoes at the combine.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/six-nba-players-whose-listed-heights-could-drastically-drop-when-league-reveals-true-measurements/


Everyone goes to work in shoes but do you really include shoes when people ask you how tall you are? I never have.