[Shams] Nesmith agrees to 2/$40.4m extension with Indy

[Scoot McGroot]

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[BK_2020]

It feels like just yesterday when Nesmith was just another draft bust missing every shot and letting everyone score. Happy to see him get a second chance and find success.

*also, fouling all the time

[Devilanche]

Seemed like he left some money on the table , if he had went to free agency could have gotten more.

Generational wealth afterall.

[HornetJail]

Seemed like he left some money on the table , if he had went to free agency could have gotten more.

Generational wealth afterall.

probably not that much though, better to lock down an objectively enormous amount of money in case he gets injured or something.

He also would've had to wait until 2027 to get it.

[tmorgan]

Carlisle is too good at developing and making guards look good. Then you gotta pay ‘em all.

[jbk1234]

That's a good deal for Indy.

[brackdan70]

Seems about fair.

[Mavrelous]

Surprised he signed it, but he wanted the security I guess, 40 is what he made in 7 years in the league.

[daoneandonly]

Really good deal for Indy, such a smartly run franchise

[tcheco]

Good deal for both him and Pacers. Coming off a strong playoff, get that money dude

[jowglenn]

Great deal, he's a steady force on this team. We got him for incredibly cheap on his current deal (people said 3 yrs, 33 mil was an overpay at the time hahahahahaha) and now we extend him for cheap.

Now the interesting thing will be what happens with Mathurin in RFA next year. If he has a huge year - as I suspect he will - is some team going to throw the bag at him? Will the Pacers match? Will some kind of trade be worked up potentially?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Great deal, he's a steady force on this team. We got him for incredibly cheap on his current deal (people said 3 yrs, 33 mil was an overpay at the time hahahahahaha) and now we extend him for cheap.

Now the interesting thing will be what happens with Mathurin in RFA next year. If he has a huge year - as I suspect he will - is some team going to throw the bag at him? Will the Pacers match? Will some kind of trade be worked up potentially?

RFA is sort of dead. Even if there is money this next off-season...

1) Some of it will dry up through transactions
2) Teams don't often "throw the bag" at an RFA since the team can match and it ties up cap space in the meantime
3) If the player is good enough they will get a contract from their team

I'd very much put Mathurin in the camp of Giddey/Kuminga both in terms of overall level of player and ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another "wait until September" and a deal gets a done situation.

[tcheco]

Great deal, he's a steady force on this team. We got him for incredibly cheap on his current deal (people said 3 yrs, 33 mil was an overpay at the time hahahahahaha) and now we extend him for cheap.

Now the interesting thing will be what happens with Mathurin in RFA next year. If he has a huge year - as I suspect he will - is some team going to throw the bag at him? Will the Pacers match? Will some kind of trade be worked up potentially?

6-6 scorers aren't getting overpaid this year at least. if he gets to 23ppg with 38%3pt maybe, but thats a hard statline to get from 16ppg and 34% from 3

[gswhoops]

Seemed like he left some money on the table , if he had went to free agency could have gotten more.

Generational wealth afterall.

probably not that much though, better to lock down an objectively enormous amount of money in case he gets injured or something.

He also would've had to wait until 2027 to get it.

100% agree. His career earnings to date are just under $40M, so he's basically doubling that in 2 years and he'll hit free agency again at age 29 to land another substantial deal if everything goes well.

[gswhoops]

Great deal, he's a steady force on this team. We got him for incredibly cheap on his current deal (people said 3 yrs, 33 mil was an overpay at the time hahahahahaha) and now we extend him for cheap.

Now the interesting thing will be what happens with Mathurin in RFA next year. If he has a huge year - as I suspect he will - is some team going to throw the bag at him? Will the Pacers match? Will some kind of trade be worked up potentially?

RFA is sort of dead. Even if there is money this next off-season...

1) Some of it will dry up through transactions
2) Teams don't often "throw the bag" at an RFA since the team can match and it ties up cap space in the meantime
3) If the player is good enough they will get a contract from their team

I'd very much put Mathurin in the camp of Giddey/Kuminga both in terms of overall level of player and ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another "wait until September" and a deal gets a done situation.

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

[Scoot McGroot]

Great deal, he's a steady force on this team. We got him for incredibly cheap on his current deal (people said 3 yrs, 33 mil was an overpay at the time hahahahahaha) and now we extend him for cheap.

Now the interesting thing will be what happens with Mathurin in RFA next year. If he has a huge year - as I suspect he will - is some team going to throw the bag at him? Will the Pacers match? Will some kind of trade be worked up potentially?

RFA is sort of dead. Even if there is money this next off-season...

1) Some of it will dry up through transactions
2) Teams don't often "throw the bag" at an RFA since the team can match and it ties up cap space in the meantime
3) If the player is good enough they will get a contract from their team

I'd very much put Mathurin in the camp of Giddey/Kuminga both in terms of overall level of player and ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another "wait until September" and a deal gets a done situation.

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

Could do something like the “starters criteria” of, say, 100% of MLE for non starters or 150% for meeting certain “starters criteria”? Obviously, numbers are flexible overall, but something like that where guys like Isaiah Jackson probably would’ve gotten non tendered, while Kuminga’s could apply a little pressure and key starters could apply more?

[gswhoops]

RFA is sort of dead. Even if there is money this next off-season...

1) Some of it will dry up through transactions
2) Teams don't often "throw the bag" at an RFA since the team can match and it ties up cap space in the meantime
3) If the player is good enough they will get a contract from their team

I'd very much put Mathurin in the camp of Giddey/Kuminga both in terms of overall level of player and ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another "wait until September" and a deal gets a done situation.

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

Could do something like the “starters criteria” of, say, 100% of MLE for non starters or 150% for meeting certain “starters criteria”? Obviously, numbers are flexible overall, but something like that where guys like Isaiah Jackson probably would’ve gotten non tendered, while Kuminga’s could apply a little pressure and key starters could apply more?

I admittedly have not thought through all the specifics yet, but the general idea is to make the QO an actual difficult choice for teams rather than just reflexively extending it to any remotely desirable FA. I could envision a tiered system where the QO level increases if a player exceeds [x] games played or [x] minutes played, etc.

[Scoot McGroot]

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

Could do something like the “starters criteria” of, say, 100% of MLE for non starters or 150% for meeting certain “starters criteria”? Obviously, numbers are flexible overall, but something like that where guys like Isaiah Jackson probably would’ve gotten non tendered, while Kuminga’s could apply a little pressure and key starters could apply more?

I admittedly have not thought through all the specifics yet, but the general idea is to make the QO an actual difficult choice for teams rather than just reflexively extending it to any remotely desirable FA. I could envision a tiered system where the QO level increases if a player exceeds [x] games played or [x] minutes played, etc.

Oh, agreed. For example, in either of these ideas, Indy would most likely have let Isaiah Jackson enter unrestricted free agency? And the threat of signing the higher QO earlier could have spurred quicker action around Kuminga and Giddey. And maaaaybe Brooklyn would have non tendered Cam Thomas, too?

[8305]

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

It seems to me like the current system works pretty well for owners? Negotiations are more contentious but in the end salaries for lesser or more high risk players are lower. Why would owners concede an element of the current CBA that makes for easier management of the cap?

[gswhoops]

It feels like something fundamentally needs to change about RFA in the next CBA. It feels like it's gone from a useful right of first refusal to a tool that just allows teams to strong arm players. I'm not sure what the fix is though. One idea I think makes sense is raising the QO tender to something like 150% of the MLE (which would be like ~$22 million this offseason) so teams have to make a real decision about whether to offer it or let a guy become a UFA. A more complicated idea is making teams submit a sealed "max" offer to the league ahead of time when they offer the QO so that there's no "waiting period" - if a team beats the offer they can sign the player immediately; if not, the player is immediately re-signed to their current team

It seems to me like the current system works pretty well for owners? Negotiations are more contentious but in the end salaries for lesser or more high risk players are lower. Why would owners concede an element of the current CBA that makes for easier management of the cap?

I mean yes, the union would have to negotiate for it.