Why did the Bulls dynasty break up?

[Wilford Brimley]

I'm too young to remember the logistics and personnel decisions at the time. Wiki has this to say:

The summer of 1998 brought an abrupt end to the championship era.[10] Krause felt that the Bulls were on the verge of being too old and unable to compete. He decided that the team's only choices were to rebuild or endure a slow decline. His plan was to trade away the aging talent and acquire high draft picks while clearing salary cap space to make a run at several promising free agents in two years' time. After having been vetoed in a previous attempt by owner Jerry Reinsdorf, Krause traded Scottie Pippen for Roy Rogers (who was released in February 1999) and a conditional second-round draft pick from the Houston Rockets. He also decided not to re-sign Dennis Rodman, and traded Luc Longley and Steve Kerr for other draft picks. He hired a new coach, Tim Floyd, who had run a successful program at Iowa State University. Upon Phil Jackson's departure, Michael Jordan made his second retirement official. With a new starting lineup of point guard Randy Brown, shooting guard Ron Harper, newcomer Brent Barry at small forward, power forward Toni Kukoc, and center Bill Wennington, the team began the lockout-shortened 1998–99 season. Kukoc led the team in scoring, rebounding, and assists, but the team won only 13 of 50 games.

Is this accurate? If so:

- If Krause thought they were too old and unable to compete, why not inject some youth in there as the Celtics tried to do with Len Bias (RIP, while keeping the veterans around instead of starting from scratch?

- Wtf at trading Pippen?

- Why did Phil leave?

-Is it true that once Phil left, MJ said "Well if Phil is leaving, I am too."

-Is it true Krause wanted people to see he could win w/o these guys?

It seems to me that if they had kept the core around and injected some youth into the roster, they could have slowly REFACED the roster, instead of blowing it up and REBUILDING it.

[mattbulls]

Players don't win championships, management does.

[INKtastic]

Krause decided two things before Jordan's final season in chicago

1 - he could quickly rebuild the bulls
2 - Tim Floyd should be their coach.

He decided before the bulls final championship season he was going to make the changes, and didn't let Tim Floyd's 12-18 record that year change his mind. He didn't let the bulls winning the championship change his mind either. That team had another clear run at a championship left in them as is and with the right moves may have extended that another season or two.

But Krasue thought he was more important to the bulls success than either jordan or jackson and set out to prove it.

[Puertorique]

This was brought up in the Jerry Krause thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=989637#p22455294

Mamba Venom wrote:Didn't Jerry decide in 98 that it was the teams final run no matter what?

Here goes pretty much what happened.

By the time the 98 season began it was well known that Pippen, Jordan, Phil were not going to return to the team after that season pretty much. Krause and Reinsdorf refused to pay Pippen, Krause and Jordan had words in the media. Krause wanted to rebuild a winning team. Jordan and Phil left the door slightly open only if Krause and Reisndorf were going to bring Pippen back which would have also led to Rodman coming back. Basically the players were giving management a chance to bring the team back and they said they weren't going to pay Pippen, Jordan and Phil said they werent going to return, by the time the Jerry's said they were going to dismantle the team they were pretty much trying to save face.

[ponder276]

It's totally nuts, they should have just payed everyone and there's a very good chance they could have won a few more championships. Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc. all had multiple good years left in them. I think it wasn't just money though, a lot of it had to do with Krause's ego and his hatred for Phil Jackson, who the players loved. Some Phil Jackson/Krause stuff from Krause's wiki:

During the summer of 1997, Krause's stepdaughter got married. All of the Bulls assistant coaches and their wives were invited to the wedding, as was Tim Floyd, then the head coach at Iowa State, whom Krause was openly courting as Jackson's successor (and who would eventually succeed Jackson). Jackson and his wife at the time, June, were not even told of the wedding, much less invited, only finding out about the event when the wife of Cartwright, who by that time had become a Bulls assistant, asked June what she would be wearing to the reception.

After contentious negotiations between Jackson and the Bulls in that same period, Jackson was signed for the 1997-98 season only. Krause announced the signing in what Chicago media widely considered to be a mean-spirited manner, emphasizing that Jackson would not be rehired even if the Bulls won the 1997–98 title. That triggered an argument between Jackson and Krause in which Jackson essentially told Krause that he seemed to be rooting for the other side and not the Bulls. At that point, Krause told Jackson, "I don't care if it's 82-and-0 this year, you're **** gone."

Krause publicly portrayed Jackson as a two-faced character who had very little regard for his assistant coaches, a perception that certain Krause associates in the Bulls organization had sought to spread about Jackson. At the height of the hard feelings in the spring of 1998, one of Krause's scouts went to press row in Chicago's United Center to explain to a reporter the insidious nature of Jackson's ego (excerpt from the Phil Jackson biography Mindgames).

It's funny that Krause tried to portray Phil as being a douche to assistant coaches, since Tex Winter, Phil's assistant in Chicago, ended up leaving the Bulls to join Phil with the Lakers.

[ponder276]

Also, the idiot decided to rebuild around Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry, it really does not get any worse than that. He may have built some excellent teams around Jordan, but if I was a Bulls fan I'd still HATE him for the way he totally destroyed a championship team that was ready to keep on winning.

Bulls seasons:

95/96 - 72 wins, championship
96/97 - 69 wins, championship
97/98 - 62 wins, championship
*** Krause dismantles team in the offseason ***
98/99 - 13 wins
99/00 - 17 wins
00/01 - 15 wins
*** Trades away the only good player on the team, a young Elton Brand, for Tyson Chandler ***
01/02 - 21 wins
02/03 - 30 wins
*** Krause retires ***
03/04 - 23 wins (still saddled with the crap team he assembled)
04/05 - 47 wins (respectable almost immediately once Krause leaves)
05/06 - 41 wins
06/07 - 49 wins

[Puertorique]

Not saying I disagree with you, because I think Krause is a douche bag, however he can't take the fall for Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. That was mostly the work of David Faulk. Krause just told the Clippers to pick Tyson Chandler. Krause wanted to keep Brand.

[High0ctane21]

It was a sad summer in Chicago after the 98 championship.

[Dr Positivity]

I don't think it was a terrible decision, it just turned out badly because of the Brand situation - They had no chance at resigning him because of Faulk - So they got a #2 pick for him which is good value. The rebuild was further wrecked with the Eddy Curry pick and Jay Williams crashing his motorcycle.

Yes it'd be nice to go for another title but they WERE really old and Rodman was pretty much done. They couldn't measure it at the time but Jordan's TS% had also taken a big drop to .533 that in 97-98, he won MVP but signs of a decline had started

As mentioned in the other Krause thread the Celtics held onto the Bird/McHale/Parish core after their time had passed and while they got a few more 50 win seasons, they were forced to rebuild from scratch and missed the playoffs from 93-00. So it goes both ways. If the Bulls drafting had gone better and Williams/Curry/Chandler was another OKC Thunder, it'd have been an excellent decision to get out early

Another good example is the Celtics after 69 when they rebuilt in the draft immediately and ended up with Cowens and Jo Jo White. In a different universe the Williams/Curry/Chandler could've been Cowens and Jo Jo and the Bulls would've transitioned smoothly into another multiple titles in the 00s

[Jimmy76]

unless you're getting some serious young assets you dont break up a contender

title windows are limited take advantage of them while you can and I think the Bulls title window was still open even if they werent favorites

[Puertorique]

I don't think it was a terrible decision, it just turned out badly because of the Brand situation - They had no chance at resigning him because of Faulk - So they got a #2 pick for him which is good value. The rebuild was further wrecked with the Eddy Curry pick and Jay Williams crashing his motorcycle.

Yes it'd be nice to go for another title but they WERE really old and Rodman was pretty much done. They couldn't measure it at the time but Jordan's TS% had also taken a big drop to .533 that in 97-98, he won MVP but signs of a decline had started

As mentioned in the other Krause thread the Celtics held onto the Bird/McHale/Parish core after their time had passed and while they got a few more 50 win seasons, they were forced to rebuild from scratch and missed the playoffs from 93-00. So it goes both ways. If the Bulls drafting had gone better and Williams/Curry/Chandler was another OKC Thunder, it'd have been an excellent decision to get out early

Another good example is the Celtics after 69 when they rebuilt in the draft immediately and ended up with Cowens and Jo Jo White. In a different universe the Williams/Curry/Chandler could've been Cowens and Jo Jo and the Bulls would've transitioned smoothly into another multiple titles in the 00s

The Celtics got old but they did try to go in the youth direction while keeping their core players together. Age didn't hurt the Celtics, the death of Len Bias and the death of Reggie Lewis hurt their franchise. So you can't say that the Celtics just hung on too long, they tried to rebuild but 2 major players in that rebuilding process died. Wouldn't really say that is not trying to rebuild or hold on.

The Bulls just won a championship and played very well. You don't dismantle a team like that fresh off of a championship. You give championship teams a chance to defend their titles. When I hear people say that the Bulls were aging I ask how many aging teams win titles has 2 All NBA players have 3 players challenging for DPOY awards? People make it sound like if Scottie, MJ and Rodman were out there limping around and barely staying ahead of the rest of the league. Hell yeah I would want my team to defend their championship and go for another rather than have a owner and a GM say nope times up. That's like saying the Lakers should dismantle the team at this point. It's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to do it and the end result has shown that. It's been 12 years and the Bulls made it past the first round once.

[astrallite]

Krause hated Phil Jackson with a passion and he would rather breakup a championship team than put up with him another year.

[Shot Clock]

Everyone hated Krause. Phil, MJ, Pippen and Grant.

Krause always felt that players didn't win chips, franchises did. He never felt he got the credit he deserved for the wins because MJ and Phil were getting the attention. The fact he didn't draft MJ was always a thorn since the key piece to the wins wasn't something he brought in.

He was so sure of his scouting abilities and the draw of playing for Chicago he put everything on the line and truly ended up proving that in fact, players win chips.