OT: All we need to know about the NBA

[leper-con]

What ruined the NBA was expansion. There are in my mind 10 teams to many.

Irrelevant teams Toronto, Milwaukee, Sacramento, the Clippers, Minnesota, Memphis , Charlotte, NEw Orleans add another two of your choice. They play about 30 games to many. The first month is basically a training camp where guys get in shape, and you check out if your rookie can paly. The last month teams begin to rest their stars so as currently constituted two months are wasted and a net loss in paying customers money for an inferior product. Add in the back to backs and another 10 or so games are abysmal.
Other issues:
1. stars gets preferential calls.
2. Star teams get preferential calls-look at some of the Lakers tapes leading them into the play offs this year.
3. Stern fines people for speaking the truth but is himself seen as a guy that fixed the Ewing lottery, nixed the Chris Paul trade and there are many other examples which the league looks shady.
4. Fact of the matter is, it’s a business and all anyone involved cares about is getting paid. The owners and the players. The playoffs aren’t about competition they are about extra revenue. The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league. Each extra home games are probably valued at 1 million dollars.

[PierceThereSoul]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

[Valid]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

We had a 15-point lead in Game 2 of the ECF last year and blew it. Honestly, the only truly awful call of that game was the missed foul on Wade when he smacked Rondo in the head. Was it a big blunder by the refs? Absolutely, but that's not the reason we lost that game, nor is it the reason why we lost that series. As a matter of fact, I remember being pleasantly surprised at how unbiased the officiating was for the majority of that series.

As far as Game 7 in 2010 goes, it was more of the same. We were up 13 in the fourth quarter and we blew it. It wasn't the result of poor officiating (and I don't even recall any truly egregious calls in that game). It was the result of us merely running out of gas. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that guys like LeBron and Wade get special treatment from the refs, but that isn't the reason why we lost to them last season.

[Jeff Van Gully]

The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league.

that's just not true. who told you that?

players get a cut of the playoff paper in the form of bonuses commensurate with the revenue generated in each round.

that's ONE reason why the argument that rasheed wallace retired at the end of the season because he maxed out his money was completely asinine. he left money on the table to retire. if the he and the knicks believed he could continue playing, he'd still be on the roster and getting paid.

[Jeff Van Gully]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

We had a 15-point lead in Game 2 of the ECF last year and blew it. Honestly, the only truly awful call of that game was the missed foul on Wade when he smacked Rondo in the head. Was it a big blunder by the refs? Absolutely, but that's not the reason we lost that game, nor is it the reason why we lost that series. As a matter of fact, I remember being pleasantly surprised at how unbiased the officiating was for the majority of that series.

As far as Game 7 in 2010 goes, it was more of the same. We were up 13 in the fourth quarter and we blew it. It wasn't the result of poor officiating (and I don't even recall any truly egregious calls in that game). It was the result of us merely running out of gas. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that guys like LeBron and Wade get special treatment from the refs, but that isn't the reason why we lost to them last season.

ugh. i thought you had that one too. i was a celtics fan for the day, no doubt.

[leper-con]

The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league.

that's just not true. who told you that?

players get a cut of the playoff paper in the form of bonuses commensurate with the revenue generated in each round.

that's ONE reason why the argument that rasheed wallace retired at the end of the season because he maxed out his money was completely asinine. he left money on the table to retire. if the he and the knicks believed he could continue playing, he'd still be on the roster and getting paid.

My understanding is they get a SHARE, not a big share. The rest goes to the owners.
They usually don't ge thtat much as they usually pass that omney onto team trainers, equipment guys ect.

[Valid]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

We had a 15-point lead in Game 2 of the ECF last year and blew it. Honestly, the only truly awful call of that game was the missed foul on Wade when he smacked Rondo in the head. Was it a big blunder by the refs? Absolutely, but that's not the reason we lost that game, nor is it the reason why we lost that series. As a matter of fact, I remember being pleasantly surprised at how unbiased the officiating was for the majority of that series.

As far as Game 7 in 2010 goes, it was more of the same. We were up 13 in the fourth quarter and we blew it. It wasn't the result of poor officiating (and I don't even recall any truly egregious calls in that game). It was the result of us merely running out of gas. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that guys like LeBron and Wade get special treatment from the refs, but that isn't the reason why we lost to them last season.

ugh. i thought you had that one too. i was a celtics fan for the day, no doubt.

That is the game that is going to forever haunt the Celtics. No matter what KG, Pierce and Rondo do for the rest of their time as Celtics (and in the case of the former two, it will likely be short), they are going to remember for the rest of their lives that they were seven minutes away from achieving their second title and squandered it.

[Jeff Van Gully]

hmm... this is strange too.

What ruined the NBA was expansion. There are in my mind 10 teams to many.

Irrelevant teams Toronto, Milwaukee, Sacramento, the Clippers, Minnesota, Memphis , Charlotte, NEw Orleans add another two of your choice. They play about 30 games to many. The first month is basically a training camp where guys get in shape, and you check out if your rookie can paly. The last month teams begin to rest their stars so as currently constituted two months are wasted and a net loss in paying customers money for an inferior product. Add in the back to backs and another 10 or so games are abysmal.
Other issues:
1. stars gets preferential calls.
2. Star teams get preferential calls-look at some of the Lakers tapes leading them into the play offs this year.3. Stern fines people for speaking the truth but is himself seen as a guy that fixed the Ewing lottery, nixed the Chris Paul trade and there are many other examples which the league looks shady.
4. Fact of the matter is, it’s a business and all anyone involved cares about is getting paid. The owners and the players. The playoffs aren’t about competition they are about extra revenue. The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league. Each extra home games are probably valued at 1 million dollars.

where do the celtics and knicks fit in the hierarchy of superstar teams? lakers and celtics are the winningest franchises. new york is the biggest market. those three teams keep the lights on when times are tough. it's in the nba's best interest that these do well. if you're suggesting the league cares about the lakers, yet conspires against the celtics... well... that doesn't make much sense.

as for the contraction discussion:

clippers? word? teams become good and bad at intervals [even in the clippers' case, i guess], but the los angeles market obviously can sustain two teams. in fact, you should consider the notion that the clippers have been horrible for most of their existence, yet still make their POS owner money.

we don't need to cut 10 teams. we need to cut 2... 4 tops.

toronto, new orleans, charlotte and memphis. can't dead the bucks, whose fan base has been sustainable since the 60s. their recent history is bad, but wisconsin is a great sports state.

it pains me to say memphis, because the grizzlies are thriving despite. but that market is a struggle for pro sports, sadly.

[PierceThereSoul]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

We had a 15-point lead in Game 2 of the ECF last year and blew it. Honestly, the only truly awful call of that game was the missed foul on Wade when he smacked Rondo in the head. Was it a big blunder by the refs? Absolutely, but that's not the reason we lost that game, nor is it the reason why we lost that series. As a matter of fact, I remember being pleasantly surprised at how unbiased the officiating was for the majority of that series.

As far as Game 7 in 2010 goes, it was more of the same. We were up 13 in the fourth quarter and we blew it. It wasn't the result of poor officiating (and I don't even recall any truly egregious calls in that game). It was the result of us merely running out of gas. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that guys like LeBron and Wade get special treatment from the refs, but that isn't the reason why we lost to them last season.

that foul on rondo was a huge reason why miami won, that was a 4 point swing in a matter of seconds because the refs helped out miami, now boston wins that the series is tied 1-1 and then boston won the next 3 so they would have and should have won 4-1

as far as the 2010 lakers game 7, the lakers shot like 20 fts in the fourth quarter alone, they werent trying to let the lakers lose at staples in the finals

[Jeff Van Gully]

That is the game that is going to forever haunt the Celtics. No matter what KG, Pierce and Rondo do for the rest of their time as Celtics (and in the case of the former two, it will likely be short), they are going to remember for the rest of their lives that they were seven minutes away from achieving their second title and squandered it.

they'll remember, but it'll be a candle in the sun compared to "ANYTHING IS POSSIBOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL"

those things haunt you when you never win. ewing probably has flashbacks of the finger roll. starks might have nightmares of 2-18. but the big 4 will always be able to sleep at night because they've been to the mountain top. do they want more? sure. and they should. but it won't even come up when they go to the hall.

[leper-con]

hmm... this is strange too.

What ruined the NBA was expansion. There are in my mind 10 teams to many.

Irrelevant teams Toronto, Milwaukee, Sacramento, the Clippers, Minnesota, Memphis , Charlotte, NEw Orleans add another two of your choice. They play about 30 games to many. The first month is basically a training camp where guys get in shape, and you check out if your rookie can paly. The last month teams begin to rest their stars so as currently constituted two months are wasted and a net loss in paying customers money for an inferior product. Add in the back to backs and another 10 or so games are abysmal.
Other issues:
1. stars gets preferential calls.
2. Star teams get preferential calls-look at some of the Lakers tapes leading them into the play offs this year.3. Stern fines people for speaking the truth but is himself seen as a guy that fixed the Ewing lottery, nixed the Chris Paul trade and there are many other examples which the league looks shady.
4. Fact of the matter is, it’s a business and all anyone involved cares about is getting paid. The owners and the players. The playoffs aren’t about competition they are about extra revenue. The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league. Each extra home games are probably valued at 1 million dollars.

where do the celtics and knicks fit in the hierarchy of superstar teams? lakers and celtics are the winningest franchises. new york is the biggest market. those three teams keep the lights on when times are tough. it's in the nba's best interest that these do well. if you're suggesting the league cares about the lakers, yet conspires against the celtics... well... that doesn't make much sense.

as for the contraction discussion:

clippers? word? teams become good and bad at intervals [even in the clippers' case, i guess], but the los angeles market obviously can sustain two teams. in fact, you should consider the notion that the clippers have been horrible for most of their existence, yet still make their POS owner money.

we don't need to cut 10 teams. we need to cut 2... 4 tops.

toronto, new orleans, charlotte and memphis. can't dead the bucks, whose fan base has been sustainable since the 60s. their recent history is bad, but wisconsin is a great sports state.

it pains me to say memphis, because the grizzlies are thriving despite. but that market is a struggle for pro sports, sadly.

I wasn't suggestiong that the Celtica haven't gotten their fare share of calls in some cases but useing that as an examplee of what is wrong with the league.
Also AMrket sustainability should factor in. There isn't enough first line talent for the amount of teams in the NBA. Even withthe trip mining of Europe. and if making a profit is your arguement then Torornto jups almost to the top of the list. I inclulded it as American players don't want to go there. I voted for illiminating the CLippers as they have been historically a laughing stock franchise. They are profitable becuas ehtey were bought so long ago for I think under 20 million at the time. But they haven't geenrated a good product. They should have been elliminated the way of bata max.

[Valid]

theres no reason a homecourt game should be that big of an advantage but the refs make it so

the celtics beat the heat last year , the double OT game was disgusting they should have won that series 4-1 and the 2010 finals game 7 was atrocious

We had a 15-point lead in Game 2 of the ECF last year and blew it. Honestly, the only truly awful call of that game was the missed foul on Wade when he smacked Rondo in the head. Was it a big blunder by the refs? Absolutely, but that's not the reason we lost that game, nor is it the reason why we lost that series. As a matter of fact, I remember being pleasantly surprised at how unbiased the officiating was for the majority of that series.

As far as Game 7 in 2010 goes, it was more of the same. We were up 13 in the fourth quarter and we blew it. It wasn't the result of poor officiating (and I don't even recall any truly egregious calls in that game). It was the result of us merely running out of gas. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that guys like LeBron and Wade get special treatment from the refs, but that isn't the reason why we lost to them last season.

that foul on rondo was a huge reason why miami won, that was a 4 point swing in a matter of seconds because the refs helped out miami, now boston wins that the series is tied 1-1 and then boston won the next 3 so they would have and should have won 4-1

as far as the 2010 lakers game 7, the lakers shot like 20 fts in the fourth quarter alone, they werent trying to let the lakers lose at staples in the finals

Meh. Again, we had a 15-point lead. The game should have never even gone into OT; let alone be decided on a missed foul call. We had plenty of opportunities to win that game and we didn't capitalize.

And the Lakers may have shot 20 FTs in the fourth quarter, but let's remember that our offense went to crap and we allowed them 1,026 second chance opportunities. Had Perk been there for Game 7, we wouldn't even be debating whether or not the refs handed the Lakers the game. We'd be talking about how KG, Pierce, Rondo and Ray (and Perk) won two titles together.

[Captain_Caveman]

I think the NBA has credibility issues, but less so in this way. Very strong correlation between elite talent and playoff seeding/success/drawing fouls. Who is more likely to force people to foul them, Durant/CP3/LeBron or Tayshaun Prince/Mbah a Moute/Steve Blake?

[PierceThereSoul]

yeah we had a 15 point lead so what, what is that supposed to suggest?

Portland was up 15 points at the start of the 4th quarter vs the lakers in 2000 and they lost and lakers eventually won the championship, Everyone knows the Lakers cheated, at the recent nbatv playoffs roundtable Steve Smith told shaq straight to his face they Cheated, and then Chris webber said they did the same against the Kings in 2002 or the Queens as Shaq called it

lets not be naive that these things happen

the Trailblazers were up 15 points, and they showed video of steve smith getting murdered by lakers players and didnt get a call same way rondo got killed by wade last year and didnt get the foul call

the Kings were cheated in 2002 to make the lakers win

and in 2010 the celtics caught the rath of stern , that 4th quarter officiating was disgusting to say the least

[Valid]

That is the game that is going to forever haunt the Celtics. No matter what KG, Pierce and Rondo do for the rest of their time as Celtics (and in the case of the former two, it will likely be short), they are going to remember for the rest of their lives that they were seven minutes away from achieving their second title and squandered it.

they'll remember, but it'll be a candle in the sun compared to "ANYTHING IS POSSIBOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL"

those things haunt you when you never win. ewing probably has flashbacks of the finger roll. starks might have nightmares of 2-18. but the big 4 will always be able to sleep at night because they've been to the mountain top. do they want more? sure. and they should. but it won't even come up when they go to the hall.

I don't know about that, man. These guys are the fiercest competitors on the planet. I'm sure KG still wakes up in a cold sweat once in a while thinking about that 13-point lead. It won't come up when they go to the hall, but you can bet that PP, KG and Rondo will talk about it together when they are sitting out on the front porch knocking back a few cold ones in 20 years.

[Jeff Van Gully]

The players have all been paid. The play-off money is for the owners and league.

that's just not true. who told you that?

players get a cut of the playoff paper in the form of bonuses commensurate with the revenue generated in each round.

that's ONE reason why the argument that rasheed wallace retired at the end of the season because he maxed out his money was completely asinine. he left money on the table to retire. if the he and the knicks believed he could continue playing, he'd still be on the roster and getting paid.

My understanding is they get a SHARE, not a big share. The rest goes to the owners.
They usually don't ge thtat much as they usually pass that omney onto team trainers, equipment guys ect.

that's true. the classy teams have been known to donate it. and you're right. it's not the same as their usual salaries. i think the first round bonus was like $10k last season. but it's still paper. it depends on the player. league minimum guys still appreciate that scratch. rich vets use it for tips.

and yes, the owners and the league feast off of the postseason in comparison. fair enough. they throw the players triscuits in comparison. will-i-am probably got more than a player will get.

[Valid]

yeah we had a 15 point lead so what, what is that supposed to suggest?

Portland was up 15 points at the start of the 4th quarter vs the lakers in 2000 and they lost and lakers eventually won the championship, Everyone knows the Lakers cheated, at the recent nbatv playoffs roundtable Steve Smith told shaq straight to his face they Cheated, and then Chris webber said they did the same against the Kings in 2002 or the Queens as Shaq called it

lets not be naive that these things happen

It's supposed to suggest that we should not have blown the lead. What is so hard to understand about that? You can't even COMPARE the 2002 Kings/Lakers series to last year's ECF. It wasn't even in the same ballpark in terms of bad calls. There was one bad call in Game 2 of the ECF. There were about 50 in that Game 6 of the Kings/Lakers series.

P.S.: How did the Lakers "cheat?" They weren't the ones making the calls.

[Jeff Van Gully]

That is the game that is going to forever haunt the Celtics. No matter what KG, Pierce and Rondo do for the rest of their time as Celtics (and in the case of the former two, it will likely be short), they are going to remember for the rest of their lives that they were seven minutes away from achieving their second title and squandered it.

they'll remember, but it'll be a candle in the sun compared to "ANYTHING IS POSSIBOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL"

those things haunt you when you never win. ewing probably has flashbacks of the finger roll. starks might have nightmares of 2-18. but the big 4 will always be able to sleep at night because they've been to the mountain top. do they want more? sure. and they should. but it won't even come up when they go to the hall.

I don't know about that, man. These guys are the fiercest competitors on the planet. I'm sure KG still wakes up in a cold sweat once in a while thinking about that 13-point lead.

yeah. KG probably remembers every loss and every slight. he looks like he internalizes everything and uses it for fuel. he's special. he doesn't count. we mean humans.

[Valid]

Good point, Ron.

[PierceThereSoul]

yeah we had a 15 point lead so what, what is that supposed to suggest?

Portland was up 15 points at the start of the 4th quarter vs the lakers in 2000 and they lost and lakers eventually won the championship, Everyone knows the Lakers cheated, at the recent nbatv playoffs roundtable Steve Smith told shaq straight to his face they Cheated, and then Chris webber said they did the same against the Kings in 2002 or the Queens as Shaq called it

lets not be naive that these things happen

It's supposed to suggest that we should not have blown the lead. What is so hard to understand about that? You can't even COMPARE the 2002 Kings/Lakers series to last year's ECF. It wasn't even in the same ballpark in terms of bad calls. There was one bad call in Game 2 of the ECF. There were about 50 in that Game 6 of the Kings/Lakers series.

Trailblazers were up 15 points going into the 4th quarter vs the Lakers in the confrence finals in 2000 , were they supposed to win that game?