Gordon Hayward's Worth?

[DrazenForThree]

Hayward should get as many touches as he wants, dude is a straight baller and great team guy. At his size and skill level, he' has legitimate 1st option potential. If Utah doesn't let him flex his muscles it will be a travesty.

Love the Jazz. Love Hayward.

Hayward will NEVER be a#1 option on a contender. 2nd at best, likely 3rd.

If Jazz pay more than 11 a year ill lose it.


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neither will paul george, look what he got

[BIG match]

Now really is the best time to make him an offer because he isnt coming off the best year...that being said, over-paying him when you have the pefrect opportunity to low-ball him is terrible management. After that season they could have gotten away with a Derozan type contract (or cheaper) but instead are going to pay him more than Favors lol.


These players are mediocre with a lot of potential yet get these horrendous contracts....Its seems like after they get these deals the almost NEVER meet their potential because theyve already been paid to the fullest.

The league is in a terrible place when it comes to player contracts...the rise of the new age agent has changed A LOT about the game cap-wise

[Inevitable]

He'll get 4/50+? Wow, that's a big hit for their salary cap. Hayward isn't that much better than Derozan who got 4/38.

I wouldn't give him 4/50 but I will admit he's a better shooter and much more efficient than DeRozan and that he is exactly what the Raptors need at the 2 spot.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

I would take hayward over ak as a wing defender... Ak's go to move was to get beat and then attempt to block the shot. AK was an amazing help defender and a mediocre man defender. Hayward obviously isn't as good a shot blocker as AK but his man defense I would take anyday.

[thamadkant]

he is worth 5 years 35 million... maybe 37.

He is not a star (not yet anyways).... he is 3rd option on a good team... Mike Dunleavy-esque.

[Marvin Martian]

WTH are the Jazz doing? You don't hand out massive extensions to 2nd tier talent; you leverage them for a real franchise player. This team will now be on the treadmill for the foreseeable future because no team with Hayward as a number 1 option will be a threat to make it past the 1st round let alone playoffs.

[noobcake]

Hayward should get as many touches as he wants, dude is a straight baller and great team guy. At his size and skill level, he' has legitimate 1st option potential. If Utah doesn't let him flex his muscles it will be a travesty.

Love the Jazz. Love Hayward.

Hayward will NEVER be a#1 option on a contender. 2nd at best, likely 3rd.

If Jazz pay more than 11 a year ill lose it.


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neither will paul george, look what he got

Paul George is a defensive second option. Offering a max to George is not that outrageous. George is worth -2m from the max.

[Biased_Fan6425]

He should just get 4/32 but will get 4/40. Anything beyond that is all-star money already.

[Wizenheimer]

Hayward is a above average all-around wing with good length and athleticism. He also posted a 41.5% 3pt% last season with a 40% career mark. That adds up to fairly good value

but 12.5-13 million a season?...that seems pretty steep

a comparison from Synergy data:

on offense:

Wesley Matthews averaged 1.02 points/possession last season. That ranked 39th in the league
Gordon Hayward averaged 0.97 points/possession last season. That ranked 102nd in the league

Matthews had an assisted FG rate of 67%. Hayward had a rate of 69%

Hayward was a little better at rebounding and assists. He also got to the FT line a little more. Matthew had a little better TS% and eFG%. with a lower turnover rate. Matthews also had better clutch-time numbers

on defense:

Wesley Matthews allowed an average of 0.82 points/possession last season. That ranked 87th in the league
Gordon Hayward allowed an average of 0.87 points/possession last season. That ranked 195th in the league

that isn't to show that Matthews is better then Hayward. It is to show that somebody with arguably better production is being paid quite a bit less then Hayward (if rumor is true). Matthews signed a 6.5 million a year deal that has two seasons left and I never hear people saying what a bargain he is

if Hayward gets almost twice what Matthews got, he's really being paid well for potential. Now obviously, you could compare hayward's rumored deal with that of Rudy Gay and reach a little different conclusion. depends on the player you use as a gauge I suppose

[Xsy]

Not a great comparison. Matthews's contract situation is probably the weirdest in the NBA.

The guy was undrafted, so he became an RFA after his rookie season. Portland threw him a huge front-loaded contract, making him the highest paid player in the 2009 class for a while.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

That contract made Wes Matthews the highest paid 2nd year player ever. He is essentially on a rookie deal. Also, one of the biggest differences between Matthews and Hayward is that Hayward can handle the ball extremely well. He is a point forward, we should also mention that he is 4 years younger than Matthews. You don't have to talk to Jazz fans about the Blazers trying to buy all of our young talent.

[irie]

I have never really been that impressed with him. To be fair, I rarely see him play though so I don't know what he is worth. But 12-13m a year is absurd for a #3 or 4 option on a team.

[Wizenheimer]

Not a great comparison. Matthews's contract situation is probably the weirdest in the NBA.

The guy was undrafted, so he became an RFA after his rookie season. Portland threw him a huge front-loaded contract, making him the highest paid player in the 2009 class for a while.

That contract made Wes Matthews the highest paid 2nd year player ever. He is essentially on a rookie deal. Also, one of the biggest differences between Matthews and Hayward is that Hayward can handle the ball extremely well. He is a point forward, we should also mention that he is 4 years younger than Matthews. You don't have to talk to Jazz fans about the Blazers trying to buy all of our young talent.

my point was a bit narrower: I compared the production of Matthews to that of Hayward because around RealGM, whenever Matthews and his contract are brought up, nobody says it's a bargain. In fact, many posters here claim his is overpaid on a deal that will pay him 6.5 million a season

yet, his production is arguably at the very least equal to Hayward's and a little more efficient. So, with Matthews at 6.5 million a year and Hayward at at least 12.5 million a year, the Jazz would be paying a pretty significant premium for potential. Which is a big part of that assumed value in Hayward being 4 years younger (although Matthews just turned 27 a week ago so it's not like he's an AARP member)

as far as Hayward being a "point-forward"...really? He averaged 3.6 assists/36 which was only one more then Matthews at 2.6, and by no stretch of imagination is Matthews a "point-anything". You'd think Hayward would top him by more then 1 assist per36.

I like Hayward and I understand why the Jazz and their fans are high on him. I just think giving him a 50 million deal seems a little excessive and represents a pretty sizable risk

[nashtymvp]

He should just get 4/32 but will get 4/40. Anything beyond that is all-star money already.

the report is he will get 4/50+

[ampheels]

let's look at this from the jazz front office perspective, look at what they have on the books next year, they're on schedule to be about $33-35M under the cap floor prior to adding cap holds for picks

$11-12.5M per year is a dramatic overpay but how else are they going to spend that money? they're one of the worst FA destinations in the league & i'm not sure if they can realistically flip biedrins/RJ for anything of value that isn't a god awful contract in return (rudy gay if the jazz include some mix of burks/gobert/picks?)

i don't like the extension at that price nor do i like the idea of capping out a team that has a ceiling of 40 wins (dependent on how they filled out the rest of that roster)

[Blame Rasho]

Fans of players like Hayward have an irrational like for him that I just don't get. He reminds me of how Blazer fans think of Batum. Basically giving a contract of over 8 digits says that you have allstar talent night in and night out and honestly I don't he is that type of player. First option? Seriously? He is a 3rd level banana on a great team with two superstars. Honestly if you have him as your 1st or 2nd option, you are going to suck as a team. I know I brought up Batum and he got a massive contract, so maybe that is the going rate for a player of his ilk... but I think giving players like him contracts like that are a recipe for failure. I would feel kinda apprehensive giving that type of money to Kawki Leonard and he is a much better player than Hayward.

[RRFB]

I've always been a fan of Hayward since that Butler run, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable paying him even $10 million/year.

Then again, there's not very many great SGs in the league anymore and if Utah thinks they have one in Hayward, it would be wise to lock him up before any of the bigger markets have a chance to snatch him away.

[Tave]

Fans of players like Hayward have an irrational like for him that I just don't get. He reminds me of how Blazer fans think of Batum. Basically giving a contract of over 8 digits says that you have allstar talent night in and night out and honestly I don't he is that type of player. First option? Seriously? He is a 3rd level banana on a great team with two superstars. Honestly if you have him as your 1st or 2nd option, you are going to suck as a team. I know I brought up Batum and he got a massive contract, so maybe that is the going rate for a player of his ilk... but I think giving players like him contracts like that are a recipe for failure. I would feel kinda apprehensive giving that type of money to Kawki Leonard and he is a much better player than Hayward.

I said he had first option potential, which he does, not that he is a first option now, which he isn't.

If you can't spot the difference between Hayward and Batum, I can't help you. Hayward has a complete floor game and can create his shot from anywhere on the floor. Batum simply isn't that talented.

FWIW, I think the contract is too high.

[ILOVEIT]

Hayward is a good player but anything over 10 or so /yr is an overpay. Not that he couldn't live up to say 50/4 or something like that, but he would have to improve quite a bit.

Utah reminds me of the Warriors 8 years ago...Paying guys like Dunleavy, Richardson, Troy Murphy...40 mil each. Before that it was signing Antawn Jamison to big money....and anyone who remotely acted like they wanted to play for the Warriors.

Look...paying second rate talent is a favorite bad GM tactic. It's like trying to tell the world that you believe you have nice pieces to build on. The reality is you can't seem to draft the right talent....so you over pay for what you did grab.

[Wizenheimer]

If you can't spot the difference between Hayward and Batum, I can't help you. Hayward has a complete floor game and can create his shot from anywhere on the floor. Batum simply isn't that talented.

.

that doesn't withstand any scrutiny

* 77% of Hayward's shots are jumpshots. 80% of Batum's shots are jumpshots. Overall Hayward is assisted on 69% of his FG's, Batum is assisted on 72%.

* they had about the same number of shots at the rim. But Batum was assisted on 51% of those while Hayward was assisted on 59% of his. And Batum had a better FG% at the rim, 65% vs .58%

* in the 10'-16' zone, they had a similar number of attempts. But Batum was assisted on 29% while Hayward was assisted on 53%. That's a huge difference that is even more noteworthy considering that Batum had a much better eFG% on those shots

* they both put up a lot of shots from the 16'-23' zone. Hayward had a lower assisted FG rate, 63% vs 68%, and a higher eFG%

But frankly, since both players had eFG% below 40% in those two shooting zones, there is nothing commendable for either. They should be taking most of their shots at the rim or behind the arc

* Hayward is a better shooter from 3 point range, but the assisted FG% of the two players is essentially even
-----------------------------

in other words, there is nothing statistically indicating that Hayward has a significantly better "floor game" or better at creating his own shot. And by the way, Guys with good floor games usually are assisted on less then half their FG's, not 70%

on the other hand, Batum is better in assists and initiating team offense....an integral part of a floor game. Batum is also better in rebounds, steals, and blocked shots

now, if you want to use Batum as some kind of template for what Hayward should be paid, that's fine. The big difference (besides at least 4 million) is that Batum got an offer sheet from Minnesota the Blazers were "forced'' to match. Utah is doing this without seeing what the market is for Hayward. By the way, the GM that made that offer to Batum got fired...