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The Right time to make a BIG Move

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ATLHawksfan21
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#261 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:46 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:Blaming Horford's injuries on him playing Center is a cop out in my opinion. Why don't you see it happen more if it's a consequence of having a player play out of position against slightly bigger opponents?


I won't delve too much into this topic as it's one that is a hot button issue and one that we've discussed extensively. (Thread HERE!)

I wouldn't begin to quote anatomy, biology. I'm no expert by any means. I just have come to a conclusion based on what I've read over the years. AL has only gotten injured while playing bball, guarding two larger players. (Hibbert/Varejao) AL has asked for help in the post, stating it takes a toll on his body. AL played bball at a high level for a decade plus before these injuries. The main difference between past years and now, he has to guard bigger players.

It's possible that Horford, son of a professional athlete, considered a top player on multiple levels for more than a decade never learned proper weight-lifting technique. Not even after tearing his pec the first time and receiving months of rehab. This seems unlikely.

As far as why do some guys get hurt and not others? Who knows. Why does Rose tear an ACL on a non contact play and Teague not? All I know is AL expressed concern over getting beat up as an undersized 5. He's missed two of the last 3 years with injuries. I think these two statements are directly related.



I agree with what a lot of what you are saying and I'm sure it does tire Al out to guard centers. I still don't see how Varejao makes a difference on that play though. V was putting no weight on Horford and Horford was the one leaning over him. It just looks like a fluke injury to me. He wasn't overly applying pressure or having to strain a lot in a muscular way. He was just stretching fully in an attempt to swipe the ball.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#262 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:48 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:Horford and Milsap were tearing it up when they were together. I think they are our future frontcourt going forward unless we have the chance to get a BIG name.

I just don't see Bud being as interested in a "traditional" center like most of the fans are. I think he prefers a quicker lineup that is more diverse and can attack in a variety of ways. We rely on team defense moreso than man defense which helps cover our lack of a "traditional" big.


Hey, time will tell. But it's worth noting that D Ferry used our highest draft pick in years to secure a young Center who's only skill set is defense and rebounding. And that Ferry's top Free Agent target was to pursue the top Defensive Center last year.

We'll see if Millsap is re-signed next summer, or if we pursue the best defensive big available in 2015...Marc Gasol.



Howard is the most dominant center in the league by a wide margin. He's like Lebron, you have to go after him if he's available and shows any interest.

Point taken on drafting Bebe but he does seem to be much quicker and agile than most traditional centers. His offensive game is certainly limited though, or should I say nonexistent.

and I should clarify what I was meaning before as I can see how it was misunderstood. When I was saying "traditional center", I was meaning a defensive big with limited offensive skills. This really isn't a traditional center but a defensive center I guess. I would absolutely love to have Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard if we were able to get them. I just think it's key that all 5 guys are able to contribute more than just putbacks and setting screens on offense.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#263 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:45 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:I still don't see how Varejao makes a difference on that play though. V was putting no weight on Horford and Horford was the one leaning over him. It just looks like a fluke injury to me. He wasn't overly applying pressure or having to strain a lot in a muscular way. He was just stretching fully in an attempt to swipe the ball.


This is a very good point. And it's actually what makes me believe it's an injury based on frequent contact and abuse as opposed to a single blow.

Horford's first injury in 2012 also occurred on a light contact play when he came down trying to haul in a rebound against the Pacers.

The fact that it doesn't happen from a single blow, but has happened twice while reaching/straining during a game against larger players makes me believe this was not from a single blow to the muscle, but a continued stress placed on it over time.

Is it an outlier of a conclusion, perhaps. But this injury never occurs while weightlifting. It never occurs in the off season. It never occurs when he's making love to his wife, or mowing his lawn or wrestling with his little brother.

It only occurs playing basketball, on defense, against huge human beings. I don't think it's a coincidence.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#264 » by Yungsta404 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:06 am

So the hawks are not even getting a visit from carmelo? shows how "highly interested" he is in us.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ckets-Mavs


Carmelo Anthony plans on making his decision in the second week of July after taking several visits in free agency.

Anthony is expected to meet with the New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks. A source made no mention of meeting with the Miami Heat.

The source said that Anthony loves New York and playing for the Knicks, but there are questions surrounding the future of the franchise.

Phil Jackson was evasive when asked by reporters Thursday night if he would be willing to complete a sign-and-trade with Anthony if he opts to go elsewhere. The source added that the Knicks and Anthony have had no discussions about the possibility of a sign-and-trade.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#265 » by PandaKidd » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:11 pm

AS I PREDICTED

WADE OPTS OUT so does bosh.

Riley is god

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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#266 » by atlantabbq99 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:24 am

One thing u can say about Ferry is that he hates treading water. He loves to be a big time player every off season.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#267 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Tue Jul 1, 2014 1:54 am

PandaKidd wrote:AS I PREDICTED

WADE OPTS OUT so does bosh.

Riley is god

Sent from my VS980 4G using RealGM Forums mobile app


Maybe Lebron or Bosh end up being available after all.

Woj just tweeted "As free agency starts, James/Bosh/Wade plan to give Pat Riley a window to enact his plan on upgrading supporting cast, sources tell Yahoo."

It should be hard to sell free agents on signing deals for less money when the big 3 returning is not a sure thing.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#268 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 1, 2014 6:45 am

MaceCase wrote:They are not held over a barrel with Kyrie whereas Kyrie will either have to risk playing on a one year deal before he's unrestricted or enjoy playing in Milwaukee or Sacramento because he's not in a position at all to dictate where he wants to play.


I openly and willingly acknowledge, you were right.

I was wrong. Dead wrong.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483849707563651072[/tweet]
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#269 » by MaceCase » Tue Jul 1, 2014 7:48 am

Yea, you can file that away in news that is not news but I guess it was fun arguing an extremely unlikelihood.

You can still hold out hope that he takes the money and then demands a trade though :wink:
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#270 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 1, 2014 8:15 am

MaceCase wrote:Yea, you can file that away in news that is not news but I guess it was fun arguing an extremely unlikelihood.

You can still hold out hope that he takes the money and then demands a trade though :wink:


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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#271 » by PandaKidd » Tue Jul 1, 2014 2:34 pm

MaceCase wrote:Yea, you can file that away in news that is not news but I guess it was fun arguing an extremely unlikelihood.

You can still hold out hope that he takes the money and then demands a trade though :wink:

I was wrong as well.

+2 Internet points to you sir
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#272 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 6, 2014 8:34 pm

azuresou1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:...
I wouldn't mind seeing us trade Teague, Millsap, Bebe for Pau Gasol (sign and trade) and the #7 draft pick.
They get two vets to help Kobe get back to the playoffs and we get a 7 Foot beast in the post plus a shot at Smart, Vonleh or Saric.


2014 called to let you know that Pau Gasol is done.

Millsap for 7? Sure. Millsap, Teague, AND Bebe for Pau and #7? Yuck


Are you sure about Pau being done?

He's starting off the season in fine form avg 18 ppg 11 rpg 2.5 bpg with a PER above 21. All this with a gimpy Joakim, a very average D-Rose and under a coach who's not nearly as offensive minded as our own.

I can't reiterate enough:

Pau & Horford could have been the single most dominating front court in the East. If only our estranged GM had possessed the foresight to consider it.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#273 » by azuresou1 » Thu Nov 6, 2014 9:31 pm

Pau's been performing better than I expected (although caveat that it's only 5 games in)... but I still don't touch that trade.

Ignoring that we dumped Bebe to dump Lou Will's contract, you're trading two of our three best guys for Pau and let's say Stauskas.

Do you REALLY feel better running
Schroeder/Korver/DeMarre/Horford/Pau w/ Stauskas off the bench
vs.
Teague/Korver/DeMarre/Millsap/Horford w/ Dennis etc. off the bench?

I don't.
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Re: The Right time to make a BIG Move 

Post#274 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 7, 2014 12:57 am

azuresou1 wrote:Pau's been performing better than I expected (although caveat that it's only 5 games in)... but I still don't touch that trade.

Ignoring that we dumped Bebe to dump Lou Will's contract, you're trading two of our three best guys for Pau and let's say Stauskas.

Do you REALLY feel better running
Schroeder/Korver/DeMarre/Horford/Pau w/ Stauskas off the bench
vs.
Teague/Korver/DeMarre/Millsap/Horford w/ Dennis etc. off the bench?

I don't.


I'd be more than okay with trading Jeff Teague for the #7 pick. Using that same pick on Noah Vonleh or Dario Saric (potential stars). And then signing Jameer Nelson or Devin Harris to a short/minimal deal as starter.

I absolutely believe Devin Harris + Noah Vonleh have more value (in trade or as on court performers) than just Jeff Teague.

I believe that a lineup of:

Devin Harris/Korver/Demarre/Horford/Gasol

could be just as productive as

Teague/Korver/Demarre/Millsap/Horford.

Plus, we'd have multiple, blue-chip prospects in the pipeline like Saric (or Vonleh) & Dennis.

We'd also have a dominant front court. And a veteran back court with backups like Mack and Dennis to ease the load.

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