Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal
Quotatious wrote:I'm afraid I won't vote anymore in the project, as I'm in the process of re-evaluating my rankings (at least when I have some free time, which isn't often...), but I'll try to contribute here and there.
Chuck Texas wrote:Enjoying some of the stuff on Chief in the last few threads. His longevity is outstanding and maybe he's a better player than I remember. Would love some more insight from some of his supporters here on what they feel like were the main things he brought to a team.
trex_8063 wrote:Little past 24 hours in (thru post #42):
Alex English (2) - penbeast0, ronnymac2
Robert Parish (1) - trex_8063
Dominique Wilkins (1) - JordansBulls
Dikembe Mutombo (3) - E-Balla, tsherkin, Doctor MJ
Pau Gasol (1) - john248
Allen Iverson (1) - Joao Saraiva
Adrian Dantley (1) - Moonbeam
RSCD3_ states is leaning Parish, but not voted that I can see. Still no vote from Owly, fplii, Basketballefan, Quotatious (who implies he won't vote).
trex_8063 wrote:Quotatious wrote:I'm afraid I won't vote anymore in the project, as I'm in the process of re-evaluating my rankings (at least when I have some free time, which isn't often...), but I'll try to contribute here and there.
I think many of us are re-evaluating our rankings (sort of the point, no?). I don't think that's any reason to stop voting in the project (particularly in run-offs).
Joao Saraiva wrote:I said people say Iverson had defensive issues because of his size. My opinion is that he was actually a great defender with a lot of heart. He had amazing full court D, he was a good gambler (I said he had to gamble because sometimes due to his size, but that's not a mistake for him, I think he adapted well) and he moved his feet quickly.
SactoKingsFan wrote:Joao Saraiva wrote:I said people say Iverson had defensive issues because of his size. My opinion is that he was actually a great defender with a lot of heart. He had amazing full court D, he was a good gambler (I said he had to gamble because sometimes due to his size, but that's not a mistake for him, I think he adapted well) and he moved his feet quickly.
I wouldn't say AI was a great or very good defender. He was quick, knew how to play the passing lanes and frequently gambled. That's how he got so many steals. We know he was capable of playing great defense from his time at Georgetown, but AI wasn't a great defender in the NBA. I think he'll probably get voted in around 55, but it won't be because of his defense.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Chuck Texas wrote:Enough already with "the only reason player X isn't voted in yet is because of dislike". People just don't see a guy the same way you do. I've been promoting Deke for 15 threads or more at this time, but I don't think he's been kept out because people don't like finger wags or African hospitals.
Official Vote: Mutombo
I've given my reasons a bunch of times, but again primarily because 'I think he's the best defender left on the board.
Also great rebounder, decent offensive player albeit with low volume, good playoff performer--I know its been debated who gets more credit for the 01 run of the Sixers. And while AI is the easy choice since he was taking all the shots, that team won on defense and Deke was the head of that snake. I'm not a huge W/S guy but I know many of you guys are and Deke had both more OWS and DWS in hte 01 PS than Iverson and a much higher ORTG. AI was well under 50% TS that PS. Deke put up 14/14 with 3 blocks and good efficiency.
Basketballefan wrote:SactoKingsFan wrote:Joao Saraiva wrote:I said people say Iverson had defensive issues because of his size. My opinion is that he was actually a great defender with a lot of heart. He had amazing full court D, he was a good gambler (I said he had to gamble because sometimes due to his size, but that's not a mistake for him, I think he adapted well) and he moved his feet quickly.
I wouldn't say AI was a great or very good defender. He was quick, knew how to play the passing lanes and frequently gambled. That's how he got so many steals. We know he was capable of playing great defense from his time at Georgetown, but AI wasn't a great defender in the NBA. I think he'll probably get voted in around 55, but it won't be because of his defense.
If Ai goes as low as 55 that will prove how much the voters dislike him.
Moonbeam wrote:trex_8063 wrote:Quotatious wrote:I'm afraid I won't vote anymore in the project, as I'm in the process of re-evaluating my rankings (at least when I have some free time, which isn't often...), but I'll try to contribute here and there.
I think many of us are re-evaluating our rankings (sort of the point, no?). I don't think that's any reason to stop voting in the project (particularly in run-offs).
I agree wholeheartedly. It is difficult as we move on and so many guys seem viable to vote for any particular player, but I feel that the voting is not the end-game of this project, and I'd hate for uncertainty over a vote to rob us of anyone's valued insight, of which you've got a lot!
Peja Stojakovic wrote:Jimmy butler, with no regard for human life
Chuck Texas wrote:Enough already with "the only reason player X isn't voted in yet is because of dislike". People just don't see a guy the same way you do. I've been promoting Deke for 15 threads or more at this time, but I don't think he's been kept out because people don't like finger wags or African hospitals.
E-Balla wrote:The team won on defense but they were great defensively before Deke and offensively they would've been one of the worst teams ever if not for Iverson single handedly making them above average. Raising a great defense to marginally greater levels is not as impressive as raising terrible offenses to respectable levels.
Joao Saraiva wrote:About Iverson's PER and WS/48... well, English wasn't exactly flirting a lot with those stats too.
About the guys Iverson played with... I understand the point. Still Iverson is a guy that is not easy to measure, there are a ton of what ifs with him, some flaws in his game, some question marks and his stats can be seen differently depending on the context you put into it. That's the way I see Iverson, but I completely understand people who see him diferently.
From the guys you mentioned "Joe Smith, Tim Thomas, Larry Hughes, Toni Kukoc, Keith Van Horn, Chris Webber and other scorers like Corliss Williamson, Clarence Weatherspoon even a Matt Geiger" how many of them were really great players? I don't hold Larry Hughes very high. Stackhouse seems to embrace a Iverson role at times in his career too with much less success. Corliss Williamson is average at most too.
Webber had a good 05-06 season, he was just old and didn't get wasn't the same guy we used to see in Sacramento. His FG% wasn't very high, but it also wasn't high in his late years with the Kings... I wonder what Iverson could do with a prime Webber.
Peja Stojakovic wrote:Jimmy butler, with no regard for human life
