trex_8063 wrote:For recap of what I found of Iverson's effect on offense and overall team outcomes, I quoted my prior post (EDIT: btw, for all of these SRS values I valuated HCA as being worth 3 pts; this based roughly off some numbers Moonbeam had mentioned):trex_8063 wrote:AVERAGE effect of having Iverson vs. not having him over aforementioned years:
NOT weighted for games played/missed
+7.3 ppg
+1.1% TS%
+2.3 ORtg
+4.61 SRS
Weighted for games played
+7.4 ppg
+1.2% TS%
+2.5 ORtg
+4.21 SRS
Weighted for games missed
+7.1 ppg
+0.8% TS%
+1.4 ORtg
+2.90 SRS
39-59 record (.398) without, 251-193 record (.565) with (avg of +13.7 wins per 82-game season).
Went thru and did the same for Dantley ('80 thru '87); game data in the spoiler:Spoiler:
Average effect of having Dantley vs. not having him
NOT weighted for games played/missed *only two years data for ts% and ORtg ('86 and '87)
+3.1 ppg
+0.7% TS%*
-2.8 ORtg*
+1.74 SRS
Weighted for games PLAYED
+3.1 ppg
+0.6% TS%*
-3.0 ORtg*
+2.12 SRS
Weighted for games MISSED
+2.7 ppg
+2.2 TS%*
+1.5 ORtg*
-0.28 SRS
41-73 (.360) record w/o him, 246-296 (.454) record with: avg +7.7 wins per 82-game season.
For whatever apparently individual statistical superiority Dantley has, he does not appear to have had a comparable level of impact on team success in his prime as Iverson did (Iverson's prime lasted longer, too).
Thanks for the recap!
I do have TS summaries for the 1982-83 and 1984-85 seasons.
In 1982-83, Utah was +1.9 TS% with Dantley vs. without him. There is a suggestion that perhaps Dantley's presence reduced teammates TS a bit (52.6% without him but 51.05% with him), but this is influenced in two ways by John Drew - he played quite poorly to start the season (as Dantley's backup) due to cocaine addiction, putting up 47.6% TS on 14.8 TSA per game, whereas he was putting up 56.7% TS on 20.3 TSA per game after he came out of rehab when Dantley was injured.
In 1984-85, Utah was +3 TS% with Dantley vs. without him. To put this in perspective, the least efficient in 1984-85 was Golden State, with a 52.21% TS. Without Dantley, Utah was nearly a full percentage point lower, at 51.31%. With Dantley, Utah's 54.31% TS would rank 11th out of 23 teams. In games Dantley played, his teammates improved their TS to 52.54% - still poor, but no longer the worst in the league (by a long shot). This increase was entirely due to increased eFG, as they jumped from 46.32% eFG (well behind the lowest team, again Golden State at 47.04%) to 48.3% eFG with Dantley, but Dantley eroded their free throw rate somewhat, at 0.3243 without him down to .2807 with him. That wasn't bad for Utah, though - Dantley shot free throws at 80.37% that season, whereas his teammates combined for 76.23%.
Utah had a poor offense overall in 1984-85, partly because for some reason, Darrell Griffith assumed near co-primacy with Dantley (19.43 TSA per game in games Dantley played vs. Dantley's 21.89 TSA per game), despite sporting a TS of 51.2%, more than 3% below league average.