PG: Gross

[Ice Man]

So basically the Bulls are taking games off against weak competition. Isn't that what everyone wanted?

A lot did, but I think it's a load of ****. The only teams to win titles that way are previous champions with Hall of Fame superstars, as in the Jordan Bulls ('93) or the Kobe Lakers. Of the 20 NBA teams in history with the best records, 14 won the title that year. Conversely, almost no teams win titles with under 55 wins.

The notion of coasting so as to turn it on in the playoffs is an excuse for lazy and/or bad teams that won't win titles. That is, unless prime MJ or Kobe are signed in March.

[mj234eva]

So, it hasn't.

Outside of Boozer, and Korver, the Bulls had mostly + defenders. That's not the case, this season.

It's mostly just swapped. Where it was defense then, its now offense. Now our guys can score and score well, but are getting killed on defense. The point being that we look one dimension just like then, just on the opposite side now.

we're 10th in offense and 11th in defense right now

derrick rose, defensive rebounding and forcing turnovers. those are the issues. the rebounding is due to the reduced rates of noah and taj. i'll assume taj is a fluke because the effort seems to be there. and i'll assume noah is due to the combination of his usual slow start and injury

derrick rose, forcing turnovers and managing noah's injury. those should be the focal points of anyone with the power to improve the team

The issue with defensive rebounding has been there all season, although they've improved somewhat. But on a per game basis they still give up the 4th most offensive rebounds to their opponents.

Good you brought up the non forcing of turnovers. I noticed that yesterday when looking over some numbers. Under Thibs' the Bulls have never been one of the top teams in forcing turnovers, but at least they were middle of the pack. This season, they're ranked 27th in opponent turnovers.

[DanTown8587]

It's funny we talk about so many things that may be issues (Gasol, Kirk, rebounding, etc). Again, I'll post this stat

Bulls record with Derrick Rose TS% above .470: 16-1 (+10.1 points; only loss was Cleveland game Derrick didn't finish)
Bulls record with Derrick Rose TS% below .470/doesn't play: 9 -9 (-3.2 points)

There is a clear connection between Derrick scoring and team success. We can sit here and discuss everything else we ever talk about it but it all really comes down to Derrick: this team simply will not win if Derrick Rose is a bad offensive player.

The first time the Bulls lose when Derrick scores well, I'll try and give the other issues some attention but they're not really important issues to me. Of course the Bulls don't defensive rebound well: they block shots incredibly well, they make teams shoot from mid range, they don't foul a lot, and they give up very few threes. Some people expect perfection on the defensive end and I think it's impossible. You simply don't have the energy to be perfect on that end and still score a lot of points.

[Ctownbulls]

So basically the Bulls are taking games off against weak competition. Isn't that what everyone wanted?

A lot did, but I think it's a load of ****. The only teams to win titles that way are previous champions with Hall of Fame superstars, as in the Jordan Bulls ('93) or the Kobe Lakers. Of the 20 NBA teams in history with the best records, 14 won the title that year. Conversely, almost no teams win titles with under 55 wins.

The notion of coasting so as to turn it on in the playoffs is an excuse for lazy and/or bad teams that won't win titles. That is, unless prime MJ or Kobe are signed in March.

But the Bulls are still going to win 55 games while coasting against mediocre competition. Despite losing 6 games to bad teams they are still 25-11. That is with Rose being injured and sucking, Noah being injured, Taj/Noah/Rose missing time, blending a rookie into the rotation.

It is all good. Bulls have another level this year. We saw it the last 5 minutes against Houston. They aren't winning because they play harder than every other team. They are winning because they have superior talent. Couldn't say that in the past.

[dice]

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415CHI.HTM

They finally updated the numbers.

The teams biggest concern still remains Noah. Even as bad as Rose has played, Bulls are still better with him on the court. Can't say the same about Jo.

No surprise, Butler has highest +/- followed by Gasol.

on/off is a bunch of baloney

Really? Because those number's pretty much support who the better players are on the team. Butler, Gasol and Gibson have been our best player's and these number's support that.

those numbers say that aaron brooks has been our best player

[RedBulls23]

on/off is a bunch of baloney

Really? Because those number's pretty much support who the better players are on the team. Butler, Gasol and Gibson have been our best player's and these number's support that.

those numbers say that aaron brooks has been our best player

Huh? No they don't.

It shows that he's been our 5th best player.

[mj234eva]

Bulls record with Derrick Rose TS% above .470: 16-1 (+10.1 points; only loss was Cleveland game Derrick didn't finish)
Bulls record with Derrick Rose TS% below .470/doesn't play: 9 -9 (-3.2 points)

There is a clear connection between Derrick scoring and team success. We can sit here and discuss everything else we ever talk about it but it all really comes down to Derrick: this team simply will not win if Derrick Rose is a bad offensive player.

Going to need you to explain why you chose .470 TS%.

[Ice Man]

But the Bulls are still going to win 55 games while coasting against mediocre competition.

I'd feel better if the team could win 65 games while coasting, or 65 games while playing hard. The former would indicate a team that has more talent than this one, and the latter would indicate a team that has more desire than this one. Which is why teams that win 65 games are much, much likelier to win a title than are teams that win 55 games.

But yes, we could still go far in the playoffs with a 55-win team that coasts.

[Ice Man]

The teams biggest concern still remains Noah. Even as bad as Rose has played, Bulls are still better with him on the court. Can't say the same about Jo.

Jo has been just a body this season. In November when I expressed concern I was told not to worry, he would come back by Christmas at the latest.

Which means that it's time to worry per the original conversation, but I suspect that those goal posts will be moved.

[dice]

Really? Because those number's pretty much support who the better players are on the team. Butler, Gasol and Gibson have been our best player's and these number's support that.

those numbers say that aaron brooks has been our best player

Huh? No they don't.

It shows that he's been our 5th best player.

you're going by "simple rating," whatever that is. it's not +/-. has no relation to the other numbers in the chart. it's probably a bad box score stat

[Ice Man]

you're going by "simple rating," whatever that is. it's not +/-. has no relation to the other numbers in the chart. it's probably a bad box score stat

If it shows Jimmy and Pau to be the team's two best players, it can't be that bad.

[RedBulls23]

The teams biggest concern still remains Noah. Even as bad as Rose has played, Bulls are still better with him on the court. Can't say the same about Jo.

Jo has been just a body this season. In November when I expressed concern I was told not to worry, he would come back by Christmas at the latest.

Which means that it's time to worry per the original conversation, but I suspect that those goal posts will be moved.

I remember saying I wouldn't worry till mid December, early January if he was still playing like this. Mostly because in the past he would bounce back around that time.

[RedBulls23]

you're going by "simple rating," whatever that is. it's not +/-. has no relation to the other numbers in the chart. it's probably a bad box score stat

Like I said, it can't be a coinicdence that it shows Butler, Gasol and Gibson as our best players.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[dice]

you're going by "simple rating," whatever that is. it's not +/-. has no relation to the other numbers in the chart. it's probably a bad box score stat

Like I said, it can't be a coinicdence that it shows Butler, Gasol and Gibson as our best players.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

it's probably just adding numbers in box scores. i can do the same thing myself. doesn't mean it's worthwhile. there's a reason it's called "simple rating"

and why are you eagerly awaiting updates on a stat when you don't even know what it is?

[vvgotgame19]

In past seasons, last year in particular, Thibs has had a guy that would execute his vision and lead by example. Last year, it was Noah's team, and he lead vocally and by example. The rest of the team followed. This year, with Derrick coming back, it became his team by default. He is playing very uninspired, lazy and lackadaisical. On top of that, Noah is no longer bringing that same intensity that separated him from other regular hustle players. These are our leaders, and our role players go as they go. Derrick in particular needs to get his head out of his a**. Your franchise player can't play as uninspired as he has been. Plain and simple. Idk what his deal is? In past years he would get motivated by little things. This year it seems like he's just out there to do a job. He needs to dig deep and take some damn pride in his game. He is better than this.

[RedBulls23]

and why are you eagerly awaiting updates on a stat when you don't even know what it is?

I also like seeing the other break downs over-all.

What the opposing player is doing on a one on one matchup and also how each player is fairing at the certain position they play.

[dice]

and why are you eagerly awaiting updates on a stat when you don't even know what it is?

I also like seeing the other break downs over-all.

What the opposing player is doing on a one on one matchup and also how each player is fairing at the certain position they play.

the "production" stats are somewhat interesting. though who knows how they're calculating those either

[drbg43]

Don't even understand how this happened. Was half watching this game... seemed like the Bulls had it within a manageable amount, then all of a sudden 20 point deficit. Shocking.

[SpinninHouse]

I can accept the Brooklyn loss at home but last night was pathetic. Doesn't anybody else feel we should sit Rose for a game? He was 0-10 at one point last night, right? And Hinrich is lucky Thibs loves him to death because most coaches would have cut him by now. People can manipulate stats about how awesome Hinrich is but people who've wat ched every game KNOW he's terrible. Horribly inefficient shooting, demoralizing fouls, and bone headed turnovers.

I expect a much better effort tomorrow. Bad games happen, which is why I can accept the horrible loss at home to Brooklyn. But to lose at home against Utah like we did, wow. Tough to swallow. I'll have to review San Antonio's games from last seasons and see in what fashion their losses were.

[Stratmaster]

I feel bad for Washington

We will win and all will be well again

U don't lose to Utah in a blowout and move on. This is the defining loss of there year. We got our ass kicked by effing Trevor booker and gollbert. I know hayward is dam good but he's not lebron James and that's the role he played vs this chi team. Hinrich does nothing on offense but dribbles into a more terrible shot. If they don't think they need help they fooling themselves.

It is funny how a few on here have immediately moved to the Hinrich comments. Hinrich played 24 minutes. During those 24 minutes the Bulls were -3, which happens to be the best +/- of any of the regular rotation players. 7 points better as a matter of fact, than any other rotation player.

That is not to say he didn't stink. I will be the first to say that +/- in no way indicates how well a player played. In fact, I scream it from the highest peaks any chance I get. Hinrich had a bad game too. But it does indicate that he was certainly not the reason, or even "a" reason, why the Bulls lost. Unless of course you want to point out that he didn't go off and score 20 points to keep the Bulls in the game. But that isn't his role. That is Mike Dunleavy's role (worm can opened). It also indicated that the team as a whole performed best during the minutes he was on the court, regardless of whether you though he just "dribbles into a more terrible shot".