Are Hawks Better with Dennis at PG?

[Rip2137]

Its too small a sample size. That's my point. About 4 more games like last night. And again, this isn't that usefulnofna metric alot of times unless you are only looking at the units playing major minutes. A unit that is +9 that only played 16 minutes in 2 games could very well be benefiting from playing in a blowout and everyone has stopped trying.

Bottomline, Schroder has the opportunity to close the gap with Teague if he tweaks some stuff. Teague has the opportunity to widen the gap if he plays better. But they have still been a weak point for this team this year in moat games.

[Maf]

Interesting. I thougt Dennis plays so bad this year he should drop behind Mack.

[Jamaaliver]

So after inexplicably giving Dennis two straight DNP-CDs in a row, Bud returned DS to our rotation last night against the Knicks. Making him the first PG off the bench and, surprisingly, playing him over Teague down the stretch of a tight game. Dennis tied Horford for a GAME HIGH 8 assists. Though, DS was clearly rusty, making a few poorly placed passes throughout the night, missing a crucial free throw in the closing minutes, and losing his man on a last second score by Jose Calderon.

With that said, it's somewhat telling that DS immediately returned to the lineup and led the team in assists. And also running point down the stretch of a close game.

When pressed, Bud offered this reasoning:

I thought the group was playing well with Dennis out there. I just thought we had a little bit better energy, a little bit better defense, so we just went with it.

Horford, as well, spoke to how well the team played with DS on the floor:

I feel like he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. His energy and activity when he’s playing at a high level really sets us apart

Here



Probably nothing much to this. Just a couple of media savvy guys reciting cliché lines after an unmemorable game in the dog days of January.

But, I can't help but think that the gap is narrowing between how effective/efficient the Hawks are with Dennis running point compared to Mack and Teague.

Am I the only one seeing this?
Are we getting closer to a consensus that Teague is more valuable in trade for a wing?
Can we trust Dennis to start and close out games for this teams on a consistent basis?

[jayu70]

So after inexplicably giving Dennis two straight DNP-CDs in a row, Bud returned DS to our rotation last night against the Knicks. Making him the first PG off the bench and, surprisingly, playing him over Teague down the stretch of a tight game. Dennis tied Horford for a GAME HIGH 8 assists. Though, DS was clearly rusty, making a few poorly placed passes throughout the night, missing a crucial free throw in the closing minutes, and losing his man on a last second score by Jose Calderon.

With that said, it's somewhat telling that DS immediately returned to the lineup and led the team in assists. And also running point down the stretch of a close game.

When pressed, Bud offered this reasoning:

I thought the group was playing well with Dennis out there. I just thought we had a little bit better energy, a little bit better defense, so we just went with it.

Horford, as well, spoke to how well the team played with DS on the floor:

I feel like he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. His energy and activity when he’s playing at a high level really sets us apart

Here



Probably nothing much to this. Just a couple of media savvy guys reciting cliché lines after an unmemorable game in the dog days of January.

But, I can't help but think that the gap is narrowing between how effective/efficient the Hawks are with Dennis running point compared to Mack and Teague.

Am I the only one seeing this?
Are we getting closer to a consensus that Teague is more valuable in trade for a wing?
Can we trust Dennis to start and close out games for this teams on a consistent basis?

I do know Dennis's activity is always up and his Defense is way above Teague's.
Teague sleepwalks through too many games. We never know which iteration of Jeff we'll get. He's also not running the offense .

[HMFFL]

If our management decides to go a different direction at the 1, we need to shop Teague as silently as possible, so it doesn't hurt his value as much. We clearly must decide due to Teague being up for an extension after next season.

[PandaKidd]

I cringe at DS being the starting PG and having that ...........swag come with it. But I think its something we have to move forward on. Teague , something is going on there with him and Bud. Hes not having the impact he was last year. I would shop him , quietly. I doubt youll get much in return, but its time to shake things up and maybe take a gamble/risk

[Jamaaliver]

[Teague's] not having the impact he was last year. I would shop him , quietly. I doubt you'll get much in return, but its time to shake things up and maybe take a gamble/risk

He should have been shopped proactively last summer when his stock was highest.

2 years left, efficient season, All Star, playoff tested, great salary. The absolute highest his value will ever be. Kills me no one in the FO had the foresight to acknowledge this was inevitable.

I still see a market of teams that need either a playoff tested vet at PG (Jazz/Bucks), or a young sparkplug to invigorate their vet squad (Rockets/Pacers). We can get something of value if we play it right. (Even Dragic, Knight and RONDO got a couple of draft picks in the final months of their deals. Teague's better than any of them.)

HOU, MIL, CHI, Brooklyn, Indiana, NOP, Utah could all use upgrades at point and have a few assets worth trading.

If Dragic, B Knight, Rondo can each get a bit of value in the final months of their deals...Teague at $8 million for a year and half should easily get a decent return.

I cringe at DS being the starting PG and having that ...........swag come with it. But I think its something we have to move forward on.

I've been a DS fan for years now. (Hated that Mack got all that PT over him as a rookie.) And I openly, willingly, admit that I too have reservations regarding DS. But Dennis (in my mind) is only a small factor in whether to move Teague or keep him. JT0 ain't worth $16+ million to this team. And if you don't think you want to shell out the dough to keep him long-term, you move him with 1+ years for value. Basic rule of business, trades, asset management. You don't let a commodity like Teague simply die on the vine for NOTHING.

With that said, I would start DS with the understanding there will be some growing pains. I'd acquire A VET PG to platoon and mentor the young'n. But allow DS to play through his mistakes with 4 other vets on the floor to guide him through rough patches.

[Jamaaliver]

Ironically, even the Fantasy Sports Writers are in favor of benching Teague for a while:

Our experts are fading Jeff Teague

The Hawks point guard has been inconsistent as of late, which has our fantasy experts avoiding him on Thursday. Teague has a good matchup against the 76ers, but our experts recommend fading him for another point guard.

Here

[PandaKidd]

THJ had 8pts vs 76ers? I missed the game.

DS box score looks better than Teagues.

[jayu70]

THJ had 8pts vs 76ers? I missed the game.

DS box score looks better than Teagues.

THJr played well in 1st half, 4th quarter minutes was garbage time.

Something is up with Teague.

[Jamaaliver]

Ironically, even the Fantasy Sports Writers are in favor of benching Teague for a while:

Our experts are fading Jeff Teague

The Hawks point guard has been inconsistent as of late, which has our fantasy experts avoiding him on Thursday. Teague has a good matchup against the 76ers, but our experts recommend fading him for another point guard.

Here

In that same vein, fantasy writers see DS as an improving asset limited only by his role and lack of PT:

Point guard: Dennis Schroder is the better point guard than Jeff Teague by the eye test in most outings. More active on defense, more aggressive in the drive-and-dish space, the lack of steady minutes is all that holds him back. With Teague heading for unrestricted free agency, maybe Schroder gets his chance by the deadline. Either way, he's a worthy stash in deeper formats...

[PandaKidd]

#TRADETEAGUEFORKEVINMARTIN

[Jamaaliver]

#TRADETEAGUEFORKEVINMARTIN

I like Kevin Martin and believe he would be a great acquisition.

But Teague, in his prime, coming off All Star season, on a great contract, is worth more.

If we trade our vet ALL Star PG to MInny, I expect some of that extra young talent they have to be included: Shabazz/Dieng at the very least.

Question: Having seen DS play well of late and seeing Bud trust him with big minutes in big moments this season, are we more comfortable turning the keys over to the young German? With the expectation that there will indeed be some growing pains along the way...

[jayu70]

#TRADETEAGUEFORKEVINMARTIN

Uuhhh...If you are trading Teague at least get some defense and rebounding in return. The Hawks are leading the Eastern conference in PPG, percentage and assists.

[PandaKidd]

Defense and rebounding.........wasnt splitter supposed to bring that? I digress.

[jayu70]

Defense and rebounding.........wasnt splitter supposed to bring that? I digress.

What's still our deficiency? Defense and Rebounding. We can always use more if that.

[Jamaaliver]

Another contributor to HawksHoop lays out the argument for keeping/dealing each of Teague and Dennis:

While many expected Schröder to continue his fine development heading into his third year, he’s headed for a season almost identical to his second season. Not to say he’s having a bad season, but compare those numbers to last season’s numbers. His production is almost identical (in fact, slightly lower) this season. He has shown inconsistency in his performances throughout the season, leaving Hawks fans frustrated.

...the same thing can be said for Atlanta’s starter at point guard, Jeff Teague.

Teague has shown flashes of brilliance at times this season. But he’s also had games where he has looked a shadow of himself — shooting the ball poorly and, for a penetrating guard, not getting to the line as often as he should.


Their per 36 numbers are quite similar.

Teague is averaging 18.9 points, 6.9 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.6 steals and 3.3 turnovers per 36.

Schröder is averaging 17.7 points, 7.5 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 1.8 steals and 3.2 turnovers per 36 minutes.

...their effective field goal and true shooting percentages are very similar. Their offensive rating is also quite similar. Teague’s offensive rating is 102.8 points per 100 possessions, while Dennis’ offensive rating is 106.6 coming off the bench...as a starter, Dennis’ offensive rating is 101.4 points per 100 possessions.

[PandaKidd]

whens the trade deadline?

Again, id actively be shopping Teague, we know his ceiling as a starter, we dont really know DS ceiling as a starter, with starters minutes.

[Jamaaliver]

...but how about on the defensive end? Well, this is where the similarities end.

Teague’s defensive rating is 104.2 per 100 possessions. Compare this to Schröder’s defensive rating of 97.6 points per 100 possessions. In six games as a starter this season, Dennis’ defensive rating is 96.0 in 28 minutes per game.

Dennis does have the better defensive real plus-minus rating (a player’s estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance according to ESPN.com) of -1.51 to Teague’s -2.25. These numbers solidify Dennis’ case as the superior defender, and he passes the eye test too. I’ve regularly noticed Dennis hounding his man on defense with great intensity, forcing more turnovers, and fighting over picks more often.

...I’ve seen Teague check out of games on multiple occasions this season. And when I say “check out” I mean that it looks as though he’s not interested in what is going on around him. And when he’s in this mode he plays lazy defense and poor offense — taking poor shots, turning the ball over or making poor decisions — and playing without energy or interest.

While Dennis himself can be erratic (leading to poor offense and turnovers), I wouldn’t say he checks out of games the way Teague is prone to at times.

[jayu70]

My preference is to keep Dennis, he is still only 22 years old and his defense is miles better than Jeff. His defense was always better than Teague's and Dennis is always into the game regardless of how poorly he may play (like the article states above with Teague checking out of games).