Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

[Tfence92]

Retooling is NOT going to lead the Hawks to being championship caliber, forget it, it's not. Only a scorched earth rebuild and tanking will, otherwise they will continue a Georgia tradition of "always the bridesmaid, never the bride".

At least you can win a playoff series and maybe compete for the ECF here and there.
Try "8 seed or bust" for a decade before you complain too much.

[Tfence92]

Trade Teague, see what we can get for Korver, Trade Al, look for offers for Millsap. I see what this is - Let's just TANK.
Think I'll find something more productive to do.

Yeah, I don't think anyone here is going so far as to encourage tanking. But A young team that is still growing but loses in the second round of the playoffs is fine. That's part of the process. That's how they learn to play.

But if your two best players are in their primes...in their thirties...and can't get you to title contention alone...why stay with that model?

• HOU wants to contend. They'd kill for Millsap. Take advantage of their desperation.
  
• BRK is starting over, they have no need for Brook Lopez. They desperately need prospects and draft picks...take advantage of that desperation.
  
• MIL needs shooters and a Point Guard. Take advantage of that desperation.
  
• TOR thinks they can contend this year and wants a scoring big. Take advantage of that desperation.
  
• MINNESOTA is flush with young talent at every position, but they need productive vets to help that young group make a playoff push next season...take advantage of their desperation.
  
• NOP is desperate to pair Anthony Davis with another young star player for the next few years...take advantage of their desperation.
  
• CHA has wing players galore, and is desperate to make a push to the playoffs this year to appease fans, increase revenue, convince Batum to stay....take advantage of their desperation.

Their are DOZENS of trade scenarios available.

What I am advocating is better managing assets. Nailing draft picks. Being opportunistic and winning trades. Not gifting them away...

Is that truly bad advice? Don't make stupid decisions...

Question: If we lose in the 2nd round this year...does AL re-sign? or walk?

Houston - Makes sense but will they move DoMo or multiple picks with Terence Jones?

Brooklyn - I'm confused as to whether or not you're trying to trade for now or the future, but if you want to go get Brook Lopez I'm sure he's available.

MIL - Not in a position to get Teague and probably aren't going to be buying at all with how bad they've been this year.

TOR - Don't have a ton for prospects, and they probably don't need a scoring big with JoVal and Scola, heck even Patrick Patterson. I could see them maybe wanting another shooter (Korver) but I'm not sure what more they'd give up than say Terrence Ross?

MIN - Lol.. they aren't trading their young core away outside of maybe Muhammed, and they know they aren't competing this year regardless. Unless you want Pekovic, Kevin Martin or want to pay a premium for Rubio, I don't see it.

NO - They are toast this year, they are much closer to blowing it up than trading for more playermakers.

CHA - They obviously want to make the playoffs this year, but with Al having a serious injury, they may have tempered expectations. Also not sure what wings you would want? Hairston? Reunite with Marvin? Batum?

[Jamaaliver]

Retooling is NOT going to lead the Hawks to being championship caliber, forget it, it's not. Only a scorched earth rebuild and tanking will, otherwise they will continue a Georgia tradition of "always the bridesmaid, never the bride".

At least you can win a playoff series and maybe compete for the ECF here and there.
Try "8 seed or bust" for a decade before you complain too much.

The risk of completely starting over...well said.

[Jamaaliver]

Houston - Makes sense but will they move DoMo or multiple picks with Terence Jones?

Brooklyn - I'm confused as to whether or not you're trying to trade for now or the future, but if you want to go get Brook Lopez I'm sure he's available.

MIL - Not in a position to get Teague and probably aren't going to be buying at all with how bad they've been this year.

TOR - Don't have a ton for prospects, and they probably don't need a scoring big with JoVal and Scola, heck even Patrick Patterson. I could see them maybe wanting another shooter (Korver) but I'm not sure what more they'd give up than say Terrence Ross?

MIN - Lol.. they aren't trading their young core away outside of maybe Muhammed, and they know they aren't competing this year regardless. Unless you want Pekovic, Kevin Martin or want to pay a premium for Rubio, I don't see it.

NO - They are toast this year, they are much closer to blowing it up than trading for more playermakers.

CHA - They obviously want to make the playoffs this year, but with Al having a serious injury, they may have tempered expectations. Also not sure what wings you would want? Hairston? Reunite with Marvin? Batum?

These are just basic trade opportunities for assets.

Minnesota, no Wiggins and KAT aren't for trade. But Gorgui Dieng, Shabazz Mohammed Kevin Martin would be nice pieces for this team that needs rebounding, wing scoring and shooting...

NO is blowing it up. Might we snatch Gordon or Tyreke or Jrue on the cheap?

Charlotte has a injured SF on their bench who hasn't played a lick this year. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a nice young defensive stalwart, he just needs work on that jumper.

I don't want to build around any of those things...but younger prospects under longer contracts can always be moved for value. In the meanwhile, they prevent us from falling into complete ruins.

[Tfence92]

Houston - Makes sense but will they move DoMo or multiple picks with Terence Jones?

Brooklyn - I'm confused as to whether or not you're trying to trade for now or the future, but if you want to go get Brook Lopez I'm sure he's available.

MIL - Not in a position to get Teague and probably aren't going to be buying at all with how bad they've been this year.

TOR - Don't have a ton for prospects, and they probably don't need a scoring big with JoVal and Scola, heck even Patrick Patterson. I could see them maybe wanting another shooter (Korver) but I'm not sure what more they'd give up than say Terrence Ross?

MIN - Lol.. they aren't trading their young core away outside of maybe Muhammed, and they know they aren't competing this year regardless. Unless you want Pekovic, Kevin Martin or want to pay a premium for Rubio, I don't see it.

NO - They are toast this year, they are much closer to blowing it up than trading for more playermakers.

CHA - They obviously want to make the playoffs this year, but with Al having a serious injury, they may have tempered expectations. Also not sure what wings you would want? Hairston? Reunite with Marvin? Batum?

These are just basic trade opportunities for assets.

Minnesota, no Wiggins and KAT aren't for trade. But Gorgui Dieng, Shabazz Mohammed Kevin Martin would be nice pieces for this team that needs rebounding, wing scoring and shooting...

NO is blowing it up. Might we snatch Gordon or Tyreke or Jrue on the cheap?

Charlotte has a injured SF on their bench who hasn't played a lick this year. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a nice young defensive stalwart, he just needs work on that jumper.

I don't want to build around any of those things...but younger prospects under longer contracts can always be moved for value. In the meanwhile, they prevent us from falling into complete ruins.

I guess I assume you were trying to sell in the scenarios and not buy. If you are buying then yes you could get some solid younger guys.

[MaceCase]

The $70 million as it relates to the remaining balance of the cap is not static. Options are available.

No. There are no options. The team is SET.

Trade Teague, see what we can get for Korver, Trade Al, look for offers for Millsap. I see what this is - Let's just TANK.
Think I'll find something more productive to do.

No. Not tank. It's a "soft rebootooling" just like every other team that gave up their core for piddling prospects, draft picks, and couldn't decide on taking back 3rd and 4th tier veterans despite complaining that their 2nd tier veterans weren't good enough.

[MaceCase]

Does early bird allow restricted FA? If so that could be a big difference.

Nope, early Bird does not allow restricted FA. It's applies to a team's ability to go over the cap to resign a free agent and determines what kind of pay raises said free agent can receive. As it applies to Bazemore he could be resigned to a maximum of ~6.25 million using early Bird rights but anything exceeding that will require cap space.

[PandaKidd]

The $70 million as it relates to the remaining balance of the cap is not static. Options are available.

No. There are no options. The team is SET.

Instead of acting high and mighty, answer the question i posed. There you go cherry picking again.

IM waiting, no one has been able to give me a scenario where this team is better next year after resigning AH and Bazemore.

Are we signing Derozan to 2X million?

Are we getting a top 20 draft pick to contribute immediately?

Are we signing Chandler Parsons?

WHat does the rest of the team look like?

Its simple COMMON SENSE, if you commit
20 MIllion to PM hes a starter
DS is your starter
2X Million to AH hes a starter
12-13 million to Baze hes a starter

YOU DONT PAY THAT KIND OF MONEY FOR BENCH PLAYERS.

So that leaves you with a hole at SG/SF, which, like ive stated before, youre looking at Holliday/Thabo/Korver so again, please , tell me who we are bringing in to occupy that 1 spot that makes this team drasitcally different.

im all ears.

[MaceCase]

OKC is paying Kanter that kind of money. He comes off the bench.
GS is paying Iguodala that kind of money. He comes off the bench.
Noah.
Nene.
Ginobili in the past before him and Duncan took major paycuts.
Tristan Thompson only now has been moved into the starting lineup.
David Lee.
Pekovic.
etc.

That's almost a quarter of the league with players making that kind of money coming off the bench in a lower cap. That number only extends when you include guys who signed deals when the cap was even lower such as Ryan Anderson, Jeff Green, etc. Currently, Tiago Splitter is the 3rd highest paid player on the Hawks, and he comes off the bench.

Your problem, and there are many, is that you are fixated on a certain dollar amount without taking into account what actual percentage of the cap that dollar amount takes up. As has been said numerous times, it's not static but you're too much of an ass to just accept that as fact. No, instead you want to tap dance from being pointed out as being blatantly wrong by trying to paint some super specific scenario where somehow you are making the assumption that making 8 figures automatically makes you a starter in the league and you are then completing the asinine trifecta by throwing out insults. Kudos to ya.

[PandaKidd]

youre naming Vets on teams with A1 Superstars already. Seriously? Tiaggo SPlitter has been in the league for 28 years.

Still avoiding the question I asked, i would have figured a capologist like yourself would be able to answer a simple question.

If you resign
AH
BAZE
PM
(Korver/Holliday/Thabo) are already signed
DS (unless teague is still here)

Who are yuo signing for the other available spot, please, enlighten me. You dont sign Bazemore and AH to big contracts to move them to the bench, i dont care how many contracts you show that say otherwise. Iggy/Noah/Nene cmon man those are all VETS that were replaced by YOUNGER talent. Iggy left the 76ers , was in the league like 9 years and signed with GSW who had Barnes. IIRC he was the starter for awhile then Kerr asked him to move to the bench.

BATUM
BARNES
PARSONS
Derozan
BEAL

Which of those guys are we signing. Or are we drafting a top 20 to start ? (would be way outside the norm for this franchise). Are you telling me youre signing those guys to the bench? LOL

I dont think im lost here, this team has kind of pigeon holed itself into basically re-upping with the same aging core, or looking at losing a major piece for nothing. I would be SHOCKED if they handed out 3 BIG TIME contracts this offseason (meaning Bazemore, AH, and someone like Batum or Parsons or Derozan, SHOCKED).

You kind of have a log jam at SF/SG anyway with guys like Korver/Thabo/Patterson/Holliday. Signing a big name starter at SF/SG shifts all them way down the depth chart.

Or I guess i could be like you and offer nothing but backhanded jackassery comments and general talk down my nose to others positions

[PandaKidd]

OKC is paying Kanter that kind of money. He comes off the bench. - 6 Year VET, big man, big men get paid (see your SPlitter argument)

GS is paying Iguodala that kind of money. He comes off the bench. - See previous post
Noah. - VET
Nene. - VET
Ginobili in the past before him and Duncan took major paycuts. - LOL REALLY? They had won Champs already, good luck getting AH to take a paycut LOL
Tristan Thompson only now has been moved into the starting lineup. - They have LBJ who forced them into signing TT and are shopping Mozgov. That actually HELPS my argument. You dont pay a guy like TT that money and NOT start him. Thanks.

David Lee.- Probably one of the worst contracts in the league, HELL throw Gerald Wallace in there too why dont you Lee was a starter for many years, they moved him to the bench (HE WASNT SIGNED TO COME OFF THE BENCH) because he just wasnt as good or fit the style they wanted to use anymore. And, always hurt.

Pekovic.- i dont know anything about PEk, so , ill say you won that one. Congrats, 1 out of 7 aint bad?

[Jamaaliver]

Jae Crowder is putting up career-best numbers across the board and after re-signing with the Celtics this past summer for five years and $35MM, he is looking like one of the league’s top bargains. Crowder was the prize in the trade that sent Rajon Rondo to the Mavs and is flourishing this season as the Celtics’ starting small forward, Forsberg adds.

Here

Jae Crowder (or better) is the type of talented young player I'd expect in any trade for Teague. Someone young, at a position we lack talent at and who would ideally be under our control for at least a few more years.

If BOS can get back a player of that quality for a diminished Rondo...months before Free Agency, imagine what we could get for Teague with 18 months left under contract.

[MaceCase]

YOU DONT PAY THAT KIND OF MONEY FOR BENCH PLAYERS.

Here's list of a whole bunch of bench rotation players making that kind of money

.........let me attempt to nitpick that list because.....those are NOT bench players making that kind of money....they are 6th STARTERS! Yea, 6th starters not bench players! I'm so smart, now answer my irrelevant question!

Yea, dealing with Savion Glover and Fred Astaire here.

[PandaKidd]

CONTEXT. You are just arguing to argue now. Im talking about the Hawks signing Bazemore to a max deal and you thinking hell just give up his starter minutes to go to the bench, and you bring up Andre Iguadola (a guy who was MOVED to the bench) and David Lee (Who ALSO, was MOVED TO THE BENCH).

Then you bring up Vets on their like 3rd contract knowing that YOS dictates contract.

None of these guys are in this situation that we are talking about.

Why dont you bring up Gerald Wallace as a bench player making gobs of money?

Fact is you dont have an answer for my question and scenario (that you mentioned in the first place). Ill take that as the white flag.

[MaceCase]

So the Hawks signing Bazemore to a max deal has entered the conversation now? Keep on dancing, Gregory Hines. Keep crafting that perfect singular scenario while avoiding all other CONTEXT, make Baryshnikov proud.

[PandaKidd]

So the Hawks signing Bazemore to a max deal has entered the conversation now? Keep on dancing, Gregory Hines. Keep crafting that perfect singular scenario while avoiding all other CONTEXT, make Baryshnikov proud.

Jesus, you really just cant keep up.

YOU are the one who said "The Hawks can SIGN BAZEMORE AND KEEP AH and go over the cap"

Bazemore is going to get as much $$ as he can get this offseason which ive seen being in the 12million range. So lets not be stupid here, hes coming off a year STARTING for a playoff team, averaging starters minutes and numbers, and is going to get as much money as he can..................to go to the bench>?

Are you really this dense?

Seriously just forget it, you dont offer anything outside of criticism and throwing out halfass cap quotes and numbers . Answer the questions we are reasonably posting or put me on ignore.

[MaceCase]

So 12 million is a max now?

[PandaKidd]

So 12 million is a max now?

having read the cap articles posted by PTH and others, we can offer him up to 9 million before we have to make other moves to get more space.

Bazemore is coming off a contract that pays him 2 million a year. DMC just signed a 4 year 60 million. Im pretty sure Kent is not coming back for the 6.25 we can initially offer him (his starting early bird rights percentage)

Im not sure what he can max out at, (this is where you offer insight instead of "snobbery") , but I have seen people on Sheridan and other places saying he can start around 9/10 million and go up, maybe as high as 12.

so, if you are bazemore, you dont come to the hawks saying "pay me, and oh, please let me move to the bench. That would be great. " anyone who thinks that is just an idiot.

Bazemore can go to 5 other teams tomorrow and be a starter.

[PandaKidd]

HIS maximum deal, not A MAX DEAL. Im sorry if Im using the wrong terminology. let me dumb it down:

BAzemore is going to make 5 times as much money as he does now or more, and he will be the starter (IF WE RESIGN HIM)

[MaceCase]

And you've yet to establish a correlation between salary and starting, your central premise. There isn't, despite your tap dancery to nit pick the myriad of players that are coming off the bench while making "high" salaries. Fundamentally, a ~12 mil salary in 2016 is equivalent to a ~9 mil salary in 2015 and an ~8 mil salary in 2017. Is 9 mil an amount to guarantee a starting position? Look around, it's not. You yourself mentioned guys making more being moved to the bench, so alas, there isn't some invisible force field that prevents such an occurrence from happening. So to put it in dumb for you, there's no point in answering your question because you've created a false premise.