Where would Fultz and Ball rank in the last 5 drafts

Golabki · Post #1 » by **Golabki** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:33 pm

I think it's helpful, when thinking about potential top picks, to put them in a broader context. So, I was wondering where we'd rank Fultz and Ball in a pool players over the past 5 years. I'm not asking what you think of everyone now, but at the time of the players respective drafts (meaning you don't know Giannis is going to turn into a super star, he's just as unknown as he was on draft night).

I'd rate them...
1. Towns
2. Fultz
3. Ball
4. Simmons

EvanZ · Post #2 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:23 pm

Are we including the 2012 draft with Anthony Davis? Because they sure as hell aren't going before him. Players that would be drafted before Fultz/Ball:

Towns
AD
Wiggins
Russell
Simmons

Cammo101 · Post #3 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:43 pm

No chance Fultz or Ball would have gone ahead of Simmons.

Golabki · Post #4 » by **Golabki** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:55 pm

EvanZ wrote:Are we including the 2012 draft with Anthony Davis? Because they sure as hell aren't going before him. Players that would be drafted before Fultz/Ball:

Towns
AD
Wiggins
Russell
Simmons

No - I meant 2013-2017. If you were, I agree Davis is #1.

Golabki · Post #5 » by **Golabki** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:56 pm

Cammo101 wrote:No chance Fultz or Ball would have gone ahead of Simmons.

There were (and are) big concerns about Simmons shooting, attitude, athleticism and defense. Simmons over Fultz/Ball is debatable, but I definitely don't think it would be a lock.

Cammo101 · Post #6 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:01 pm

IMO...

1. Simmons
2. Towns
3. Wiggins
4. Russell
5. Ingram
6. Fultz
7. Ball
8. Jackson
9. Parker
10. Okafor

Cammo101 · Post #7 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Golabki wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:No chance Fultz or Ball would have gone ahead of Simmons.

There were (and are) big concerns about Simmons shooting, attitude, athleticism and defense. Simmons over Fultz/Ball is debatable, but I definitely don't think it would be a lock.

I was never as in love with Simmons as a lot of people. But, he was on a whole different level as a prospect. His unique skillset as a 6'10" legit point guard made him a special talent that teams were clamoring for even despite his deficiencies. Considering what LeBron has done to the league, I think Simmons would have been the very first player taken in that draft range, even if I personally would have preferred Towns at the very least to him.

Golabki · Post #8 » by **Golabki** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:07 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
Golabki wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:No chance Fultz or Ball would have gone ahead of Simmons.

There were (and are) big concerns about Simmons shooting, attitude, athleticism and defense. Simmons over Fultz/Ball is debatable, but I definitely don't think it would be a lock.

I was never as in love with Simmons as a lot of people. But, he was on a whole different level as a prospect. His unique skillset as a 6'10" legit point guard made him a special talent that teams were clamoring for even despite his deficiencies. Considering what LeBron has done to the league, I think Simmons would have been the very first player taken in that draft range, even if I personally would have preferred Towns at the very least to him.

Well... I think comparing Simmons to LeBron is a little silly... but it seems like the bigger disagreement is that you see Fultz/Ball as very mediocre prospects for top picks. I mean below Ingram?!

The-Power · Post #9 » by **The-Power** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:33 pm

Russell wasn't even the consensus 2nd pick behind Towns. Seriously doubt he'd have gone before Fultz at the very least.

Cammo101 · Post #10 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:49 pm

Golabki wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:
Golabki wrote:There were (and are) big concerns about Simmons shooting, attitude, athleticism and defense. Simmons over Fultz/Ball is debatable, but I definitely don't think it would be a lock.

I was never as in love with Simmons as a lot of people. But, he was on a whole different level as a prospect. His unique skillset as a 6'10" legit point guard made him a special talent that teams were clamoring for even despite his deficiencies. Considering what LeBron has done to the league, I think Simmons would have been the very first player taken in that draft range, even if I personally would have preferred Towns at the very least to him.

Well... I think comparing Simmons to LeBron is a little silly... but it seems like the bigger disagreement is that you see Fultz/Ball as very mediocre prospects for top picks. I mean below Ingram?!

Mediocre is a strong word. I'd say middle of the road for top picks. Not transcendent talents, but not Anthony Bennett either.

Disposable Hero · Post #11 » by **Disposable Hero** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:42 pm

I'm not sure Fultz is even a top 4 PG in this class when all is said and done, so to me plenty would go ahead of him. I'd probably go Simmons, KAT, Ball, Wiggins, Jackson for a top 5

The-Power · Post #12 » by **The-Power** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:56 pm

Disposable Hero wrote:I'm not sure Fultz is even a top 4 PG in this class when all is said and done, so to me plenty would go ahead of him.

And here I was wondering why the Fultz' thread has been so quiet and where jrob has been lately. Welcome back, mate!

Disposable Hero · Post #13 » by **Disposable Hero** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:00 pm

The-Power wrote:
Disposable Hero wrote:I'm not sure Fultz is even a top 4 PG in this class when all is said and done, so to me plenty would go ahead of him.

And here was I wondering why the Fultz' thread has been so quiet and where jrob has been lately. Welcome back, mate!

huh? jrob? You don't like the other point guards?!

Post #14 » by **Duke4life831** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:02 pm

Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

EvanZ · Post #15 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:13 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

Post #16 » by **Duke4life831** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:30 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

Im sorry but that means absolutely nothing. All that means is Simmons was in a very weak draft so there wasnt that much competition. This draft class is as stacked as we have seen at the top in a long time, so its much harder to have a consensus #1.

Id take Ball over Simmons everyday of the week. Ball is the better defender, Simmons cant defend out on the perimeter and gives 0 rim protection. Ball is also the better offensive player. Ben Simmons best skill set is his passing, Ball is just as good of a passer if not better. Ball can actually shoot it as well.

Brauer · Post #17 » by **Brauer** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:33 pm

1) Fultz
2) Simmons
3) Towns
4) Ball

Im really high on Fultz so yeah. This is based on their pre-NBA expectations.

EvanZ · Post #18 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:55 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

Im sorry but that means absolutely nothing. All that means is Simmons was in a very weak draft so there wasnt that much competition. This draft class is as stacked as we have seen at the top in a long time, so its much harder to have a consensus #1.

This class is vastly overrated. I think it could be like 2011 where there are some stars, but they will be taken further down than people think.

Cammo101 · Post #19 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:57 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

Im sorry but that means absolutely nothing. All that means is Simmons was in a very weak draft so there wasnt that much competition. This draft class is as stacked as we have seen at the top in a long time, so its much harder to have a consensus #1.

Id take Ball over Simmons everyday of the week. Ball is the better defender, Simmons cant defend out on the perimeter and gives 0 rim protection. Ball is also the better offensive player. Ben Simmons best skill set is his passing, Ball is just as good of a passer if not better. Ball can actually shoot it as well.

You can say you'd take 4 guys from this draft over Simmons. That's your opinion and though I disagree, I get it. But, to say Simmons would have gone #4 or #5 in this draft is just flat out wrong. Bad draft or not, Simmons was thought to bean elite draft prospect. He'd have gone #1, and certainly wouldn't have fallen past #3 in an absolute worst case scenario (he'd very very likely go #1). Whether you agree with it or not, Simmons was believed to be on another level from all the guys at the top of this draft.

Cammo101 · Post #20 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:59 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

Im sorry but that means absolutely nothing. All that means is Simmons was in a very weak draft so there wasnt that much competition. This draft class is as stacked as we have seen at the top in a long time, so its much harder to have a consensus #1.

This class is vastly overrated. I think it could be like 2011 where there are some stars, but they will be taken further down than people think.

It seems to only very recently be getting overrated. I think it is just a product of people seeing some of these prospects through rose colored glasses. Which happens every year around this time. It will pass I think.