2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 4

[DreamTeam09]

Anyone else feel like this draft kinda sucks and nowhere close to as good as hyped?

Like usually in every draft there's atleast a handful of guys who have high ceiling/star projection, as in you can atleast see it and the appeal..

this draft not a lot of intriguing star ceiling guys who I envision realistically making it there.

Flagg - Edgecomb - Harper

I can see with star potential.

- Not a Bailey believer
- Malauch maybe but big question mark
- Tre Johnson good offensive player but don't see star outcome

am I missing something?

The common names at the top are more decent floor guys, not necessarily elite ceiling. This is a bit like the Cade draft with a mock consensus top X players and a whole bunch of question marks after that.

It was supposed to be a four star draft: Cade, Mobley, Jalen Green, Suggs..after that, you have Scottie, Wagner, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Trey Murphy, Kuminga, Giddey, and Grimes has put together a string of good games recently. So about 13+ deep overall.

As prospects, you could say:

Cooper > Cade
VJ < Mobley
Bailey = Green
Harper > Suggs

I think the rest of the 2025 field can stand up to 2021. In which case, we need to find the Sengun/Wagner/Scottie/Jalen Johnson/Trey Murphy's of the draft.

This is the draft class I keep looking at. The overall depth ended up being really strong despite all the questions.

There are more than 10 guys in this draft I could see being key pieces going forward.

I'm on the side of this being an OK draft, I don't see how they match that 21class, after the top 5.

[Psubs]

Yooooooooo, who is Trey Kaufman-Renn on Purdue? He's averaging almost 20ppg and since February he's been like 23ppg.

I see he's a 22 year old junior.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/trey-kaufman-renn-1.html

He plays like a 6'9 Reggie Slater. Too bad, wrong era. I guess he could be like Jaylin Williams?

Watch on YouTube

Oh in the 2nd video they say that he leads the conference AND the country in points in the paint.

Watch on YouTube

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Dink Pate is probably my top target in the 2nd round or maybe Miles Byrd.

Dink Pate taiwan bound

[Dalek]

Kas is so overrated. Demin as well.

I said before he's like Bogdanovic. Really he's Bogdanovic that doesn't shoot as well. Should be downgraded to the early teens.

How about that JT Toppin!!! He should be a late teens to early 20's pick. Even as a bench tweener that can score and rebound.

Watch on YouTube

Alright a JT Toppin mention. He had two threes tonight. He is slowly expanding his game. I have no idea what his draft stock will be, but he has been an engine for that team.

[notagenius]

Watch on YouTube

Top 4 is the goal but I think we'll get a good prospect regardless.

[Psubs]

Watch on YouTube

Top 4 is the goal but I think we'll get a good prospect regardless.

Craves contact, can already go left and finish with his left. He shoots 84.5% FT's and his shot looks decent. I guess he'll just jack up thousands of 3's to prepare for the combine. We'll see if he can improve for the 3pt drills. If so, he might crack the top 10.

The way Jakucionus is trending, I think that Fears should be drafted before him.

[Dalek]

Watch on YouTube

Top 4 is the goal but I think we'll get a good prospect regardless.

Craves contact, can already go left and finish with his left. He shoots 84.5% FT's and his shot looks decent. I guess he'll just jack up thousands of 3's to prepare for the combine. We'll see if he can improve for the 3pt drills. If so, he might crack the top 10.

The way Jakucionus is trending, I think that Fears should be drafted before him.

I think Fears has his flaws but that ability to get into the paint is rare. I swear that Kentucky game they had several players in the paint and he found ways around them and either got fouled or made a pull up jumper.

The defense was bad. He constantly out of position gambling for deflections and steals leaving his man open or giving up straight line drives.

If he finds the outside shot he will be a star. Best fit is for him to be drafted by Dallas. Play under Kyrie who he should model himself after.

[WuTang_OG]

Read on Twitter

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[Jerry Lucas]

Was seeing a lot of "Rasheer Fleming is a Masai-type" sentiments to end the previous thread, and I just wanted to say I heavily disagree with this notion.

His low AST/TO ratio for an upperclassman, mediocre BPM for an upperclassman, and low FTr for a 6'9" forward are 3 red flags that would all be all-time low marks for a Masai-type upperclassman FRP. If Masai were to take any upperclassman in the lottery, the only one who has even a slight chance is Adou Thiero.

I'm also going to re-post my "Masai-type" list update from the end of the previous thread now that a new draft thread has been started (there will probably be one more update after March Madness, but being so close the end of the season I barely expect any change):

First, my track record so far (check the dates on these posts). I didn't know about Torvik until the 2023 draft cycle which is the site I use to filter for Masai-types:

Gradey:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=105427438#p105427438
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=106576531#p106576531

Ja'Kobe (his 1st half of the season stood out big time, before his knee issues in the 2nd half caused a drop off in production):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110746921#p110746921
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110829460#p110829460
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110830588#p110830588

Mogbo (pick 31 I was tracking as a psuedo-FRP, considering it was a very early SRP):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112340825#p112340825

It's still a bit early in college season but I'm going to post my first "Masai-type FRP" list of the 2025 draft cycle as a reply to this post. This list is subject to change throughout the season as some guys rise and fall based on production inconsistency (list will most likely shrink). In brackets will be where they are currently ranked on ESPN's mock (generally Masai-types rise in mocks throughout the college season), and their school.

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'9" G Egor Demin (BYU, #7)
-6'6" PG Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #8)
-6'4" PG Labaron Philon (Alabama, #19)
-6'10" PF/C Derik Queen (Maryland, #23)
-6'11" C Asa Newell (Georgia, #24)
-6'10" PF/C Thomas Sorber (Georgetown, unranked)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #18)
-7'1" PF/C Tomislav Ivisic (Illinois, #42)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, unranked)
-6'6" F Devin Royal (Ohio State, unranked)
-6'3" PG Anthony Robinson II (Missouri, unranked)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'6" Jr. G Adou Thiero (Arkansas, #20)
-7'1" Sr. C Ryan Kalkbrenner (Creighton, #30)
-6'6" Jr. G Darrion Williams (Texas Tech, #59)
-6'4" So. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)
-6'7" So. F Andrew Meadow (Boise State, unranked)
-6'3" So. G Mason Falslev (Utah State, unranked)
-6'6" So. G Eian Elmer (Miami OH, unranked)
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, unranked)
-6'9" Jr. F Malik Reneau (Indiana, unranked)

With a new draft thread up, figure it's a good time to update my "Masai-type FRP" list as a reply to my previous post:

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'9" F Cooper Flagg (Duke, #1)
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'5" G VJ Edgecombe (Baylor, #4)
-6'6" G Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #5)
-6'7" G Kon Knueppel (Duke, #6)
-6'10" PF/C Derik Queen (Maryland, #14)
-6'11" PF/C Asa Newell (Georgia, #21)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #19)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, #36)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)
-6'10" C Malique Ewin (Florida State, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'6" Jr. G Adou Thiero (Arkansas, #23)
-7'1" Sr. C Ryan Kalkbrenner (Creighton, #41)
-6'3" So. G PJ Haggerty (Memphis, #98)
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, unranked)
-6'0" Jr. PG Braden Smith (Purdue, unranked)
-6'4" Jr. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)
-6'8" Jr. F Joshua Jefferson (Iowa State, unranked)

Updated "Masai-type FRP" list now that the regular season is done, and before the start of major conference tournaments:

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'9" F Cooper Flagg (Duke, #1)
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'5" G VJ Edgecombe (Baylor, #4)
-6'6" G Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #6)
-6'7" G Kon Knueppel (Duke, #8)
-6'11" PF/C Asa Newell (Georgia, #20)
-6'3" G Jase Richardson (Michigan State, #24)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #18)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, #28)
-6'9" F JT Toppin (Texas Tech, #59)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, #38)
-6'3" So. G Mason Falslev (Utah State, unranked)
-6'9" So. F Alvaro Folgueiras (Robert Morris, unranked)
-6'4" Jr. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)

My guess is that the top 4 freshmen on this updated list (Flagg/Harper/Edgecombe/Jakucionis) is the top 4 on Masai's big board, and the next tier below is Knueppel/Newell/CMB/Condon/Jase.

Quick explainer on Jase being so high on this list despite never being on it in my previous updates. His role has been increasing as the season has went along, and since becoming a starter, his starter vs bench splits are very interesting.

Bench (from start of the season to Feb 4):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20241101&end=20250204

Starter (since Feb 5):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20250205&end=20250501

[arbsn]

My wishlist for Raps

Tier 1 (Top 4) Superstar potential... If we hit the lottery
1) Cooper Flagg
2) Dylan Harper
3) Ace Bailey
4) VJ Edgecomb

Tier 2 (Next 4) Exciting prospects.. If we keep the tank
5) Jeremiah Fears
6) Tre Johnson
7) Derrick Queen
8) Kon Knueppel

Tier 3 (Next 4) Great upside... If we slip or make the play in
9) Khaman Maluach
10) Kasparas Jakucionis
11) Nolan Traore
12) Jase Richardson

[CoinTossRoss31]

Say we end up with Pick #7, I would personally be open to trading it down for say

Orlando 15th + 25th
Brooklyn - 21, 23, 27

Target some big men to add into the program. Sorber + Wolf would be nice

[BoyzNTheHood]

This kid looks pretty good, but I’m only watching highlights. Anyone have intel?

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[Sizzle]

I know he's old and in a crappy Conference but has anyone mentioned Nique Clifford on Coloroado State? Watched him yesterday, Hes a PLAYER. Good size for a guard (6'6) and a plus defender, also has well above average to elite athleticism. He's going to be a contributing member on an NBA roster guaranteed.

I bet he goes in the late 1st round

[BoyzNTheHood]

I know he's old and in a crappy Conference but has anyone mentioned Nique Clifford on Coloroado State? Watched him yesterday, Hes a PLAYER. Good size for a guard (6'6) and a plus defender, also has well above average to elite athleticism. He's going to be a contributing member on an NBA roster guaranteed.

I bet he goes in the late 1st round

Yeah for sure, late first round pick who will help a contender. We just haven’t been in his range all year, unless he drops to the second round.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Monster he’s locked into the top 7 for me with Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, Bailey, Johnson, and Richardson.

Read on Twitter

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[Yallbecrazy]

Was seeing a lot of "Rasheer Fleming is a Masai-type" sentiments to end the previous thread, and I just wanted to say I heavily disagree with this notion.

His low AST/TO ratio for an upperclassman, mediocre BPM for an upperclassman, and low FTr for a 6'9" forward are 3 red flags that would all be all-time low marks for a Masai-type upperclassman FRP. If Masai were to take any upperclassman in the lottery, the only one who has even a slight chance is Adou Thiero.

I'm also going to re-post my "Masai-type" list update from the end of the previous thread now that a new draft thread has been started (there will probably be one more update after March Madness, but being so close the end of the season I barely expect any change):

First, my track record so far (check the dates on these posts). I didn't know about Torvik until the 2023 draft cycle which is the site I use to filter for Masai-types:

Gradey:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=105427438#p105427438
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=106576531#p106576531

Ja'Kobe (his 1st half of the season stood out big time, before his knee issues in the 2nd half caused a drop off in production):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110746921#p110746921
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110829460#p110829460
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110830588#p110830588

Mogbo (pick 31 I was tracking as a psuedo-FRP, considering it was a very early SRP):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112340825#p112340825

With a new draft thread up, figure it's a good time to update my "Masai-type FRP" list as a reply to my previous post:

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'9" F Cooper Flagg (Duke, #1)
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'5" G VJ Edgecombe (Baylor, #4)
-6'6" G Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #5)
-6'7" G Kon Knueppel (Duke, #6)
-6'10" PF/C Derik Queen (Maryland, #14)
-6'11" PF/C Asa Newell (Georgia, #21)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #19)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, #36)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)
-6'10" C Malique Ewin (Florida State, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'6" Jr. G Adou Thiero (Arkansas, #23)
-7'1" Sr. C Ryan Kalkbrenner (Creighton, #41)
-6'3" So. G PJ Haggerty (Memphis, #98)
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, unranked)
-6'0" Jr. PG Braden Smith (Purdue, unranked)
-6'4" Jr. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)
-6'8" Jr. F Joshua Jefferson (Iowa State, unranked)

Updated "Masai-type FRP" list now that the regular season is done, and before the start of major conference tournaments:

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'9" F Cooper Flagg (Duke, #1)
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'5" G VJ Edgecombe (Baylor, #4)
-6'6" G Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #6)
-6'7" G Kon Knueppel (Duke, #8)
-6'11" PF/C Asa Newell (Georgia, #20)
-6'3" G Jase Richardson (Michigan State, #24)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #18)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, #28)
-6'9" F JT Toppin (Texas Tech, #59)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, #38)
-6'3" So. G Mason Falslev (Utah State, unranked)
-6'9" So. F Alvaro Folgueiras (Robert Morris, unranked)
-6'4" Jr. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)

My guess is that the top 4 freshmen on this updated list (Flagg/Harper/Edgecombe/Jakucionis) is the top 4 on Masai's big board, and the next tier below is Knueppel/Newell/CMB/Condon/Jase.

Quick explainer on Jase being so high on this list despite never being on it in my previous updates. His role has been increasing as the season has went along, and since becoming a starter, his starter vs bench splits are very interesting.

Bench (from start of the season to Feb 4):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20241101&end=20250204

Starter (since Feb 5):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20250205&end=20250501

This is an excellent post and should be mandatory reading.

Masai has historically valued production and length/athleticism in addition to personality traits which we in this thread aren't privy to. He weighed offensive rebounding and stocks a lot previously. I think recently they have put more emphasis on assist to turnover ratio and shooting in their calculations.

[Indeed]

Dink Pate is probably my top target in the 2nd round or maybe Miles Byrd.

Dink Pate taiwan bound

His decision making is rather bad, this is from multiple scouting videos. Defense wasn't there (yet) against G-League. He is more low 2nd, imo.

[Indeed]

Anyone else feel like this draft kinda sucks and nowhere close to as good as hyped?

Like usually in every draft there's atleast a handful of guys who have high ceiling/star projection, as in you can atleast see it and the appeal..

this draft not a lot of intriguing star ceiling guys who I envision realistically making it there.

Flagg - Edgecomb - Harper

I can see with star potential.

- Not a Bailey believer
- Malauch maybe but big question mark
- Tre Johnson good offensive player but don't see star outcome

am I missing something?

The common names at the top are more decent floor guys, not necessarily elite ceiling. This is a bit like the Cade draft with a mock consensus top X players and a whole bunch of question marks after that.

It was supposed to be a four star draft: Cade, Mobley, Jalen Green, Suggs..after that, you have Scottie, Wagner, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Trey Murphy, Kuminga, Giddey, and Grimes has put together a string of good games recently. So about 13+ deep overall.

As prospects, you could say:

Cooper > Cade
VJ < Mobley
Bailey = Green
Harper > Suggs

I think the rest of the 2025 field can stand up to 2021. In which case, we need to find the Sengun/Wagner/Scottie/Jalen Johnson/Trey Murphy's of the draft.

This is the draft class I keep looking at. The overall depth ended up being really strong despite all the questions.

There are more than 10 guys in this draft I could see being key pieces going forward.

I think we are underrating freshmen in Richardson, Fears, Queen where these can probably perform well immediately. While high ceiling (high risk) also includes CMB (can he play SF? Seems to have the handle), Essengue (can he play tougher?), Sorber (if he measures long enough).

I think it is definitely comparable if not better.

[LoveMyRaps]

Some people are ignorant for calling this a waste of a season.
Coming away with a top 10 pick in this loaded draft class is a huge win.
And we're in pretty decent position to still jump into the top 4.

[Jerry Lucas]

Was seeing a lot of "Rasheer Fleming is a Masai-type" sentiments to end the previous thread, and I just wanted to say I heavily disagree with this notion.

His low AST/TO ratio for an upperclassman, mediocre BPM for an upperclassman, and low FTr for a 6'9" forward are 3 red flags that would all be all-time low marks for a Masai-type upperclassman FRP. If Masai were to take any upperclassman in the lottery, the only one who has even a slight chance is Adou Thiero.

I'm also going to re-post my "Masai-type" list update from the end of the previous thread now that a new draft thread has been started (there will probably be one more update after March Madness, but being so close the end of the season I barely expect any change):

First, my track record so far (check the dates on these posts). I didn't know about Torvik until the 2023 draft cycle which is the site I use to filter for Masai-types:

Gradey:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=105427438#p105427438
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=106576531#p106576531

Ja'Kobe (his 1st half of the season stood out big time, before his knee issues in the 2nd half caused a drop off in production):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110746921#p110746921
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110829460#p110829460
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=110830588#p110830588

Mogbo (pick 31 I was tracking as a psuedo-FRP, considering it was a very early SRP):
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112340825#p112340825

Updated "Masai-type FRP" list now that the regular season is done, and before the start of major conference tournaments:

Tier 1 - Masai-type Lottery level Freshmen:
-6'9" F Cooper Flagg (Duke, #1)
-6'6" G Dylan Harper (Rutgers, #2)
-6'5" G VJ Edgecombe (Baylor, #4)
-6'6" G Kasparas Jakucionis (Illinois, #6)
-6'7" G Kon Knueppel (Duke, #8)
-6'11" PF/C Asa Newell (Georgia, #20)
-6'3" G Jase Richardson (Michigan State, #24)

Tier 2 - Masai-type Lottery level Sophomores:
-6'8" F Collin Murray-Boyles (South Carolina, #18)
-6'11" PF/C Alex Condon (Florida, #28)
-6'9" F JT Toppin (Texas Tech, #59)
-6'8" F Eric Dailey Jr. (UCLA, unranked)

Tier 3 - General Masai-type FRPs (Class added preceding their listed position):
-6'7" So. G Miles Byrd (San Diego State, #38)
-6'3" So. G Mason Falslev (Utah State, unranked)
-6'9" So. F Alvaro Folgueiras (Robert Morris, unranked)
-6'4" Jr. PG Bennett Stirtz (Drake, unranked)

My guess is that the top 4 freshmen on this updated list (Flagg/Harper/Edgecombe/Jakucionis) is the top 4 on Masai's big board, and the next tier below is Knueppel/Newell/CMB/Condon/Jase.

Quick explainer on Jase being so high on this list despite never being on it in my previous updates. His role has been increasing as the season has went along, and since becoming a starter, his starter vs bench splits are very interesting.

Bench (from start of the season to Feb 4):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20241101&end=20250204

Starter (since Feb 5):
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=1&year=2025&kw=jase%20richardson&start=20250205&end=20250501

This is an excellent post and should be mandatory reading.

Masai has historically valued production and length/athleticism in addition to personality traits which we in this thread aren't privy to. He weighed offensive rebounding and stocks a lot previously. I think recently they have put more emphasis on assist to turnover ratio and shooting in their calculations.

LOL stop it Yallbecrazy. I appreciate the kind words, but I've definitely learned more from your postings over the years than you have from me.