Jazzfan1971 and FloppyMoose's Season Preview - The Cavs

Post #1 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:18 pm

Cleveland Cavaliers

Projected Lineup
------------------------------------

PG - Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, AJ Price
SG - Dion Waiters, Mike Miller, Joe Harris
SF - LeBron James, Shawn Marion, James Jones
PF - Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Lou Amundson
C - Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk

Trading Block: Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters seem like the only movable assets. Of the two I'd think Tristan is more likely to be moved. Not sure that you could really upgrade anywhere by moving either of those guys, so I suspect that all will be quiet on the trade front.

Position Battle: I guess SG is a bit up in the air as Blatt won't commit to starting Dion. By my eye it's going to be Dion so I don't really see a position battle. I think Blatt is just playing some coach games with Dion's mind a bit.

Mystery Man: I think how many games you get from Varejao is the real mystery for Cavs faithful. But, for me the mystery is going to see how well Love does as a second banana.

Floppymusings: The Cavs are a tough nut to crack for a RAPM-based approach, because Lebron and Love are such outliers and now Love's role may be changing. Dangerous combo for predictions. But we roll with what we've got, and what we've got is that the Cavs should be about 21 games better. I think Marion is going to be important. Will he be healthy enough to defend at a high level in the minutes Lebron is out? If so, Cavs could beat my prediction.

Jazzfanrambling: I think if you add LeBron James to any roster you've instantly created a contender. He's just that good. But, boy, he just didn't land on any roster. He's surrounded by a bunch of talent. Be it young up and coming guys like Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan who will be there for years to provide a steady supporting cast, or ring chasing veterans like Marion and Miller who come cheap but provide valuable veteran stability to the bench. Cleveland is set up for years to come. As long as LeBron keeps signing there anyway. And I love it. I love that LeBron went back to his home. I love that Cleveland is going to have a dynasty. I love that Gilbert can go through all he's been though and all he's done and be sitting in the catbird seat. It all makes me happy. I'm never going to be a Cleveland fan, don't get me wrong, but I find them rather easy to root for. It's like they are the underdog and the favorites all wrapped into one.

I think that there are 6 or 7 teams that could legitimately come out of the West this year, but, for the East it's really only Cleveland or maybe Chicago. Everyone else is just there as cannon fodder. And I'm not even sold on Chicago. It'll be Cleveland coming out of the East barring some horrible set of injuries IMHO.

Projected Record: 54/28

NBAfan3024 · Post #2 » by **NBAfan3024** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:31 pm

I can't see Cavs winning only 54.

Think they will be closer to 60.

Captain_Obvious · Post #3 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:44 pm

That's bold: 28 losses. We'll see

mcfly1204 · Post #4 » by **mcfly1204** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:46 pm

I do not see Cleveland ending up with more than 20 loses on the season. I expect them to come out strong, outscoring most teams, with the defense tightening up as the season progresses.

hands11 · Post #5 » by **hands11** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:46 pm

Again. Next year.. change the title of these to be more inclusive and less about you two and we can avoid other posters starting their own and cluttering up the board.

These should be more General Board versions of the conversations that happen on local boards.

I'm sure more people would post in them.

Just make it something like

RealGM Members Debate - Season Preview - The Cav

I'm a marketing person. Just try it. If its not better you can try something else.

Post #6 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Sounds like a plan.

jeeph · Post #7 » by **jeeph** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:39 pm

I think the lineup by minutes will look more like this as the season goes on, barring they get a 5 or Ray Allen at the deadline.

PG - Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, Dion Waiters
SG - Dion Waiters, Matthew Dellavedova, Mike Miller, Joe Harris
SF - LeBron James, Mike Miller, Shawn Marion, James Jones
PF - Kevin Love, Shawn Marion, Tristan Thompson, Dwight Powell
C - Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk

Their record is hard to predict because the first half of the season is going to be all about getting better first and winning second. So it all depends on if their talent wins early games when they shouldn't.

For title hopes it comes down to defense and match ups. Offense is not going to be an issue even against the best defenses. Especially considering the Cavs are going to be one the best rebounding teams. You give the Cavs more offensive opportunities than their opponents get, the best defenses won't mean as much as best offenses that can keep up with the pace. Teams are going to have to beat the Cavs by taking advantage of the Cavs defense and outscoring them, plain and simple.

I don't see any teams in the East that stand out that can match the firepower. Of the playoff teams the Raps and Wizards are the only two that are even in the same ballpark. In the west, the LAC, SA, GS, POR and OKC all are more than capable. The Mavs and Grizz would be the best case scenario opponent.

Prediction: 58-24 for the 2nd seed and make it to the finals. Too many variables to make an educated guess beyond that.

Post #8 » by **floppymoose** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:52 pm

SmoothKobra · Post #9 » by **SmoothKobra** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:59 pm

I agree, I see the Cavs winning 50-55 games on account of defense, chemistry, and significant injury risks.

Scrapachenko · Post #10 » by **Scrapachenko** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:41 pm

Dwight Powell was traded almost a month ago. I fixed the Projected lineup for you... They currently are carrying 16 and I'm projecting Amundson makes the roster over Edwards(which seems like a safe bet). Moved Miller over to SG because he's played more minutes there than at SF and Jones has played almost no minutes.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers

Projected Lineup
------------------------------------

PG - Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, AJ Price
SG - Dion Waiters, Mike Miller, Joe Harris
SF - LeBron James, Shawn Marion, James Jones
PF - Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Lou Amundson
C - Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk

Trading Block: Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters seem like the only movable assets. Of the two I'd think Tristan is more likely to be moved. Not sure that you could really upgrade anywhere by moving either of those guys, so I suspect that all will be quiet on the trade front.

Position Battle: I guess SG is a bit up in the air as Blatt won't commit to starting Dion. By my eye it's going to be Dion so I don't really see a position battle. I think Blatt is just playing some coach games with Dion's mind a bit.

Mystery Man: I think how many games you get from Varejao is the real mystery for Cavs faithful. But, for me the mystery is going to see how well Love does as a second banana.

Floppymusings: The Cavs are a tough nut to crack for a RAPM-based approach, because Lebron and Love are such outliers and now Love's role may be changing. Dangerous combo for predictions. But we roll with what we've got, and what we've got is that the Cavs should be about 21 games better. I think Marion is going to be important. Will he be healthy enough to defend at a high level in the minutes Lebron is out? If so, Cavs could beat my prediction.

Jazzfanrambling: I think if you add LeBron James to any roster you've instantly created a contender. He's just that good. But, boy, he just didn't land on any roster. He's surrounded by a bunch of talent. Be it young up and coming guys like Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan who will be there for years to provide a steady supporting cast, or ring chasing veterans like Marion and Miller who come cheap but provide valuable veteran stability to the bench. Cleveland is set up for years to come. As long as LeBron keeps signing there anyway. And I love it. I love that LeBron went back to his home. I love that Cleveland is going to have a dynasty. I love that Gilbert can go through all he's been though and all he's done and be sitting in the catbird seat. It all makes me happy. I'm never going to be a Cleveland fan, don't get me wrong, but I find them rather easy to root for. It's like they are the underdog and the favorites all wrapped into one.

I think that there are 6 or 7 teams that could legitimately come out of the West this year, but, for the East it's really only Cleveland or maybe Chicago. Everyone else is just there as cannon fodder. And I'm not even sold on Chicago. It'll be Cleveland coming out of the East barring some horrible set of injuries IMHO.

Projected Record: 54/28

Post #11 » by **jazzfan1971** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:39 pm

Scrapachenko wrote:Dwight Powell was traded almost a month ago. I fixed the Projected lineup for you... They currently are carrying 16 and I'm projecting Amundson makes the roster over Edwards(which seems like a safe bet). Moved Miller over to SG because he's played more minutes there than at SF and Jones has played almost no minutes.

fixed. Thanks.

hands11 · Post #12 » by **hands11** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:18 pm

SmoothKobra wrote:I agree, I see the Cavs winning 50-55 games on account of defense, chemistry, and significant injury risks.

Well from the looks of Rose the other night, Cleveland and Chicago should both be very good.

Should be a brutal race for division champs.

Post #13 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:26 pm

SmoothKobra wrote:I agree, I see the Cavs winning 50-55 games on account of defense, chemistry, and significant injury risks.

I find your objectivity and rationality refreshing.

Prospect Dong · Post #14 » by **Prospect Dong** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:54 am

Scrapachenko wrote:Dwight Powell was traded almost a month ago. I fixed the Projected lineup for you... They currently are carrying 16 and I'm projecting Amundson makes the roster over Edwards(which seems like a safe bet). Moved Miller over to SG because he's played more minutes there than at SF and Jones has played almost no minutes.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers

Projected Lineup
------------------------------------

PG - Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, AJ Price
SG - Dion Waiters, Mike Miller, Joe Harris
SF - LeBron James, Shawn Marion, James Jones
PF - Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Lou Amundson
C - Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk

Trading Block: Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters seem like the only movable assets. Of the two I'd think Tristan is more likely to be moved. Not sure that you could really upgrade anywhere by moving either of those guys, so I suspect that all will be quiet on the trade front.

Position Battle: I guess SG is a bit up in the air as Blatt won't commit to starting Dion. By my eye it's going to be Dion so I don't really see a position battle. I think Blatt is just playing some coach games with Dion's mind a bit.

Mystery Man: I think how many games you get from Varejao is the real mystery for Cavs faithful. But, for me the mystery is going to see how well Love does as a second banana.

Floppymusings: The Cavs are a tough nut to crack for a RAPM-based approach, because Lebron and Love are such outliers and now Love's role may be changing. Dangerous combo for predictions. But we roll with what we've got, and what we've got is that the Cavs should be about 21 games better. I think Marion is going to be important. Will he be healthy enough to defend at a high level in the minutes Lebron is out? If so, Cavs could beat my prediction.

Jazzfanrambling: I think if you add LeBron James to any roster you've instantly created a contender. He's just that good. But, boy, he just didn't land on any roster. He's surrounded by a bunch of talent. Be it young up and coming guys like Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan who will be there for years to provide a steady supporting cast, or ring chasing veterans like Marion and Miller who come cheap but provide valuable veteran stability to the bench. Cleveland is set up for years to come. As long as LeBron keeps signing there anyway. And I love it. I love that LeBron went back to his home. I love that Cleveland is going to have a dynasty. I love that Gilbert can go through all he's been though and all he's done and be sitting in the catbird seat. It all makes me happy. I'm never going to be a Cleveland fan, don't get me wrong, but I find them rather easy to root for. It's like they are the underdog and the favorites all wrapped into one.

I think that there are 6 or 7 teams that could legitimately come out of the West this year, but, for the East it's really only Cleveland or maybe Chicago. Everyone else is just there as cannon fodder. And I'm not even sold on Chicago. It'll be Cleveland coming out of the East barring some horrible set of injuries IMHO.

Projected Record: 54/28

I don't know that Mike Miller has it in him to play much sg anymore - he played primarily sf with a significant dash of sg the last two seasons, and he isn't getting any more nimble on defense...

Scrapachenko · Post #15 » by **Scrapachenko** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:01 am

Prospect Dong wrote:
Scrapachenko wrote:Dwight Powell was traded almost a month ago. I fixed the Projected lineup for you... They currently are carrying 16 and I'm projecting Amundson makes the roster over Edwards(which seems like a safe bet). Moved Miller over to SG because he's played more minutes there than at SF and Jones has played almost no minutes.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers

Projected Lineup
------------------------------------

PG - Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, AJ Price
SG - Dion Waiters, Mike Miller, Joe Harris
SF - LeBron James, Shawn Marion, James Jones
PF - Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Lou Amundson
C - Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood, Alex Kirk

Trading Block: Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters seem like the only movable assets. Of the two I'd think Tristan is more likely to be moved. Not sure that you could really upgrade anywhere by moving either of those guys, so I suspect that all will be quiet on the trade front.

Position Battle: I guess SG is a bit up in the air as Blatt won't commit to starting Dion. By my eye it's going to be Dion so I don't really see a position battle. I think Blatt is just playing some coach games with Dion's mind a bit.

Mystery Man: I think how many games you get from Varejao is the real mystery for Cavs faithful. But, for me the mystery is going to see how well Love does as a second banana.

Floppymusings: The Cavs are a tough nut to crack for a RAPM-based approach, because Lebron and Love are such outliers and now Love's role may be changing. Dangerous combo for predictions. But we roll with what we've got, and what we've got is that the Cavs should be about 21 games better. I think Marion is going to be important. Will he be healthy enough to defend at a high level in the minutes Lebron is out? If so, Cavs could beat my prediction.

Jazzfanrambling: I think if you add LeBron James to any roster you've instantly created a contender. He's just that good. But, boy, he just didn't land on any roster. He's surrounded by a bunch of talent. Be it young up and coming guys like Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan who will be there for years to provide a steady supporting cast, or ring chasing veterans like Marion and Miller who come cheap but provide valuable veteran stability to the bench. Cleveland is set up for years to come. As long as LeBron keeps signing there anyway. And I love it. I love that LeBron went back to his home. I love that Cleveland is going to have a dynasty. I love that Gilbert can go through all he's been though and all he's done and be sitting in the catbird seat. It all makes me happy. I'm never going to be a Cleveland fan, don't get me wrong, but I find them rather easy to root for. It's like they are the underdog and the favorites all wrapped into one.

I think that there are 6 or 7 teams that could legitimately come out of the West this year, but, for the East it's really only Cleveland or maybe Chicago. Everyone else is just there as cannon fodder. And I'm not even sold on Chicago. It'll be Cleveland coming out of the East barring some horrible set of injuries IMHO.

Projected Record: 54/28

I don't know that Mike Miller has it in him to play much sg anymore - he played primarily sf with a significant dash of sg the last two seasons, and he isn't getting any more nimble on defense...

He does if LeBron/Marion is playing the 3... They can always guard quicker 3s and Miller guard the slower of the two. Miller's real position is spot up shooter whether he's playing the 2 or 3. Everything else we're just splitting hairs....

Most likely he is the 2/3 off the bench, Delly is the 1, Marion is the 3/4 and Thompson is the 4/5. If Thompson starts, then Varejao becomes the 4/5. Those guys will always have at least 1 starter playing with them and position will dictate that. Last night we saw a good amount of this lineup...

Delly
Waiters
Miller
Marion
Thompson

Delly/Waiters seemed to share PG duties in that lineup and that will work with some teams. Other games it could be this instead for parts of the game...

Irving
Miller
LeBron
Marion
Thompson

or

Delly
Miller
Marion
Love
Varejao

Like I said, they'll slide around depending on who they're on the floor with and who the opponent is. With Miller/Marion/LeBron you really have 3 guys that can play 2, 3 or 4 depending on matchups so it makes it pretty easy to fill out these lineups. You could even have stretches with a really big lineup like...

Waiters
LeBron
Marion
Love
Varejao

Scrapachenko · Post #16 » by **Scrapachenko** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:07 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:
Scrapachenko wrote:Dwight Powell was traded almost a month ago. I fixed the Projected lineup for you... They currently are carrying 16 and I'm projecting Amundson makes the roster over Edwards(which seems like a safe bet). Moved Miller over to SG because he's played more minutes there than at SF and Jones has played almost no minutes.

fixed. Thanks.

No, thank you.... This was actually a really well written and rational season preview. I found your comments in particular to be a breath of fresh air on here. It seems like this board is generally very polarized for or against specific players or teams.

I think your take is much more representative of the general public's opinion. I live in South Carolina and work with military guys from all over the country. Every one of them has expressed an opinion similar to yours in the OP. I haven't seen any of the hate that is expressed on here from any living, breathing person... just folks on the Internet. I work with three guys that I talk about the NBA most with that are Sixers, Lakers and Nets fans respectively. Every single one of them says they'll watch every Cavs game they can this year and will be pulling for their own team but also pulling for the Cavs due to LeBron coming home and winning one for his hometown.

I think it's a real unique situation and it's put a lot of folks from other teams that are fanatics about those teams on the defensive. A lot of those folks already hated LeBron, Kyrie, Dion or just Cleveland in general. This story won't have any affect on their feelings. However, they make up a vast minority of the people watching the NBA and that follow sports in general.

SmoothKobra · Post #17 » by **SmoothKobra** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:14 am

StocktonShorts wrote:
SmoothKobra wrote:I agree, I see the Cavs winning 50-55 games on account of defense, chemistry, and significant injury risks.

I find your objectivity and rationality refreshing.

Thanks. We also have a rookie coach who is sure to struggle as well. I don't know where people are getting 65, 70 win predictions from. I think this team is a rim protector (and maybe a secondary perimeter defender) away from real contention.

bran muffin · Post #18 » by **bran muffin** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:24 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:Projected Record: 54/28

So the Cavs will finish with the same record as the troubled and injury-ridden Miami Heat team last year? Does not compute. Irving, Love, Waiters, Varejao, Tristan, Marion, Mike Miller, and (probably) Ray Allen are going to help LeBron win more games than Bosh & one-legged Wade did last season.

Also, Cleveland finished with 66 and 61 wins during LeBron's final two years there. He is a better player now than he was then, and his current supporting cast is in a completely different league altogether. If LeBron can win 66 games with Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Anderson Varejao... then I don't see how he'll win only 54 games with Irving, Love, Waiters, Varejao, etc.

The 2010 Miami Heat finished with 58 wins. I expect something closer to that. Back then at least there were some legitimate contenders for the Heat in the East --- Bulls, Celtics, and Pacers. Now it's just the Bulls standing in LeBron's way. The lack of chemistry and defensive players may keep these Cavs from winning a title in their first year together, but I seriously doubt it will keep them from winning more than 54 games. In the Eastern conference, no less.

RaptorNews · Post #19 » by **RaptorNews** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:53 am

60 wins at least

They're stomping the East

Post #20 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:06 am

Just a reminder that in their first season together in Miami, Bosh, LeBron and Wade went "only" 58-24, an 11-game improvement over the previous season. They were great by the end of the season, but it took them awhile to get things figured out. They started the season 9-8.

I think it's unrealistic to expect this Cavs team to be 27 games better than last season.