Damian Lillard vs Kyrie Irving: Better player?

Joey Wheeler · Post #1 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 pm

The discussion on Kyrie in other threads made me think of this. I guess most people would have these 2 in the same league, so a discussion can be interesting.

For me, it's Dame. He's a better leader than Kyrie as a 1st option, I think his achievements in leading the Blazers to very good seasons in the past 3 years without a great roster around him has been underrated, probably because there's a similar player to him style-wise (Curry) doing even better, breaking records for 3-point shooting and winning titles. He doesn't really play any defense, but offensively he's fantastic and getting better every year and he's a real leader on court.

Scoring: Wash. Kyrie is better driving and finishing at the rim, but Dame has unlimited range to rival even Curry's, he can pull up from anywhere.

Playmaking: Lillard. Though neither are great

Intangibles: Lillard

Defense: Neither plays any defense...

dhsilv2 · Post #2 » by **dhsilv2** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:38 pm

I think they're in the same tier personally. If I were paying to watch one play, I'll go see Kyrie.

Post #3 » by **Duke4life831** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:42 pm

Very very similar players, basically equal when it comes to defense and facilitating, so its basically whos the better scorer. Id give Kyrie the slight edge because I trust his 3 point shot more than Lillard's. But ya very similar guys who I think are fantastic players but both cant be the #1 guy on a championship level team.

eminence · Post #4 » by **eminence** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:43 pm

I prefer Lillard, close but fairly clear to me.

Scizzup · Post #5 » by **Scizzup** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:45 pm

They are on same level for me. Lillard has gotten better getting to the line. I do think Kyrie has the better 1 on 1 ability which probably gives the edge in some playoffs situations. Damn, Lillard is already 27.

dhsilv2 · Post #6 » by **dhsilv2** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:48 pm

After some debate, Lillard is likely smarter, he doesn't think the earth is flat, so maybe I'll give him the edge.

mikejames23 · Post #7 » by **mikejames23** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:52 pm

I suspect Kyrie's perception will go down very quickly. At present I voted "Same Level", but 2 seasons from now depending on team situation this could easily garner responses like "THIS IS LILLARD LOL", etc.

I don't think Kyrie's game is built to take a team to the playoffs as the lead star, unlike Lillard who has clearly proven otherwise in a strong conference.

Post #8 » by **bondom34** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:55 pm

Dame for me and I don't even put them on the same tier. I think Dame is in the 2nd tier, Kyrie one below (first is CP/Curry/Westbrook).

Joey Wheeler · Post #9 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 pm

Scizzup wrote:They are on same level for me. Lillard has gotten better getting to the line. I do think Kyrie has the better 1 on 1 ability which probably gives the edge in some playoffs situations. Damn, Lillard is already 27.

True, but he has only played 5 seasons, so not a lot of wear and tear there. He actually came into the league 1 year after Kyrie.

I think it's possible we've been underrating Dame, he's been getting better every year and has Curry-like range. Also he's a real leader for that Blazers team; I don't think Blazers would have had as much success these past 4 years (playoffs every year, 2nd round twice) with Kyrie running the point instead of Lillard. Hopefully at some point in the next few years the Blazers can put together a contending roster around Dame so we can see how good he really is...

Baller1234a · Post #10 » by **Baller1234a** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:57 pm

Kyrie

Post #11 » by **Prez** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:05 am

I'll take Lillard. The gap isn't big but it's pretty clear for me.

Eye Test · Post #12 » by **Eye Test** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:08 am

How is this a debate ROFLMAO

Lillard by a country mile.
Kyrie is in the discussion for the most overrated player in the league me thinks!

BdeRegt · Post #13 » by **BdeRegt** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:13 am

I'd take Kyrie. He is maybe the best finisher at the rim in the entire league and can score at will on anyone. He has proven it repeatedly on the NBA finals stage to a point that Lillard hasn't reached. I feel like players on good teams are starting to get underrated.

Joey Wheeler · Post #14 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:17 am

BdeRegt wrote:I'd take Kyrie. He is maybe the best finisher at the rim in the entire league and can score at will on anyone. He has proven it repeatedly on the NBA finals stage to a point that Lillard hasn't reached. I feel like players on good teams are starting to get underrated.

It makes no sense to penalize Dame in this comparison because he hasn't done it in the NBA Finals. What would Kyrie have done in the Finals if he were leading the Blazers instead of riding shotgun to Lebron?

He has not proved he can lead a good but not great roster to the playoffs, let alone the 2nd round as Dame has done.

BdeRegt · Post #15 » by **BdeRegt** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:19 am

Joey Wheeler wrote:
BdeRegt wrote:I'd take Kyrie. He is maybe the best finisher at the rim in the entire league and can score at will on anyone. He has proven it repeatedly on the NBA finals stage to a point that Lillard hasn't reached. I feel like players on good teams are starting to get underrated.

It makes no sense to penalize Dame in this comparison because he hasn't done it in the NBA Finals. What would Kyrie have done in the Finals if he were leading the Blazers instead of riding shotgun to Lebron?

He has not proved he can lead a good but not great roster to the playoffs, let alone the 2nd round as Dame has done.

I'm saying the level he has played at in finals and for team USA is better than any point Dame has played. I feel like you are penalizing Kyrie for being on a good team.

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CptCrunch · Post #16 » by **CptCrunch** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:25 am

We've had this this thread every few months for the past 5 years. Irving has and is and will always be better than Lillard. Though Lillard has closed the gap within the past few years. Irving is still 2-4 years from his prime. Lillard is near his prime.

Here are just some of them based on a 3 second google search.

viewtopic.php?t=1209277
viewtopic.php?t=1482632

And to boot, Lillard is one of those players loved and overrated by his fanbase, and Irving is one of those often criticized.

Joey Wheeler · Post #17 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:29 am

BdeRegt wrote:
Joey Wheeler wrote:
BdeRegt wrote:I'd take Kyrie. He is maybe the best finisher at the rim in the entire league and can score at will on anyone. He has proven it repeatedly on the NBA finals stage to a point that Lillard hasn't reached. I feel like players on good teams are starting to get underrated.

It makes no sense to penalize Dame in this comparison because he hasn't done it in the NBA Finals. What would Kyrie have done in the Finals if he were leading the Blazers instead of riding shotgun to Lebron?

He has not proved he can lead a good but not great roster to the playoffs, let alone the 2nd round as Dame has done.

I'm saying the level he has played at in finals and for team USA is better than any point Dame has played. I feel like you are penalizing Kyrie for being on a good team.

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That is not necessarily true. Dame has torched the Warriors several times himself, including a crazy regular season game in the 73-win season where Dame dropped 51p and scored like 10 3s. In the playoffs, he averaged 32 against them in 2016 WCSF, 28 in the first round this year. And he did this while being the primary focus of their defense, unlike Kyrie who has a certain Lebron James in his team...

I don't think the gap is massive, but I'm picking Lillard because he has proved he can be the leader of a really good playoff team without all that much around him. Kyrie has not proved that, in fact the Cavs were heading nowhere before Lebron joined and they go to **** whenever Lebron takes a rest now.

Post #18 » by **bondom34** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:31 am

paulbball wrote:We've had this this thread every few months for the past 5 years. Irving has and is and will always be better than Lillard. Though Lillard has closed the gap within the past few years. Irving is still 2-4 years from his prime. Lillard is near his prime.

Here are just some of them based on a 3 second google search.

viewtopic.php?t=1209277
viewtopic.php?t=1482632

And to boot, Lillard is one of those players loved and overrated by his fanbase, and Irving is one of those often criticized.

You posted two threads, one has Lillard winning the poll, the other started in 2012.

StepBackCrack · Post #19 » by **StepBackCrack** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:49 am

Irving is ungaurable. Best ball-handler of all times. Can get his shot off anytime he wants. That's extremely special kind of talent. Lillard doesn't have something that special in his game. I would take Irving on my team.

Amare_1_Knicks · Post #20 » by **Amare_1_Knicks** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:16 am

I don't think there's a huge advantage either way, but there's a clear one for me, and it's in favor of Irving. For two similar players, that produce near identical stat lines, Irving's game has appeared to translate much, much easier to the postseason, historically. He's a tremendously high end postseason, big-game performer; so much so that is believable to think that he could capably step out of the shadow of a Lebron James, have a team built around him, and have success to the tune of 50+ win teams, deep playoff runs and what have you.

I don't know how one would make the case that "it isn't even close" when essentially every piece of evidence/statistics that we have at our disposal would directly suggest the opposite. I won't knock Lillard because maybe he could do the same, and maybe he could be a high-end, reliable first option with the right roster around him, but he hasn't looked stunning in any postseason run in his career thus far; & it's to the point that I believe he'd do better as a second option, ultimately, whereas I'd bank on Kyrie's ability as a first option based on what I've seen from him/them.