Patrick McCaw is not a NBA caliber player

[Randle McMurphy]

'Usually' implies a regular occurrence.

That makes it, by definition, 'not a fluke'.

Pretty sure Nurse's judgment that McCaw is actually a rotation player trumps the opinion of people who only see counting stats.

Counting stats? Don’t you mean the advanced stats that show him to be one of the worst players in the league?

I've seen those arguments, the issue there is sample size and development. The numbers will normalize with minutes AND with steady improvement.

What I don't understand is people who are convinced he's not worth the development cycles, for a NUMBER of reasons, but not the least of which are these two: the Raps have a strong history of improving players and Nick Nurse has earned the the benefit of the doubt.

Sample size? He’s been terrible for four NBA seasons. No amount of minutes is going to change that.

When the Raptors are fully healthy, he should never even see the floor.

[Randle McMurphy]

'Usually' implies a regular occurrence.

That makes it, by definition, 'not a fluke'.

Pretty sure Nurse's judgment that McCaw is actually a rotation player trumps the opinion of people who only see counting stats.

Counting stats? Don’t you mean the advanced stats that show him to be one of the worst players in the league?

Which stats have him among the worse in the league?

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1922745&start=120#p80628042

[Badonkadonk]

Counting stats? Don’t you mean the advanced stats that show him to be one of the worst players in the league?

I've seen those arguments, the issue there is sample size and development. The numbers will normalize with minutes AND with steady improvement.

What I don't understand is people who are convinced he's not worth the development cycles, for a NUMBER of reasons, but not the least of which are these two: the Raps have a strong history of improving players and Nick Nurse has earned the the benefit of the doubt.

Sample size? He’s been terrible for four NBA seasons. No amount of minutes is going to change that.

When the Raptors are fully healthy, he should never even see the floor.

I guess you're going to be really confused when he keeps getting extended minutes if you think the spot/garbage minutes he got in previous seasons were significant for development. Nurse has doubled his MPG this season (28 now) for one reason: to see if they can unlock the player that GS saw and the rookie that Jerry West raved about:

viewtopic.php?p=80574144#p80574144

Like it or not, he's Nurse's 3rd most trusted ballhandler behind Lowry and FVV. If games like the one vs. Charlotte or the road win vs. Boston and the game after vs. OKC become increasingly typical, then they'll keep feeding him.

As I said, benefit of the doubt goes to the team with the league's strongest development engine.

[Randle McMurphy]

I've seen those arguments, the issue there is sample size and development. The numbers will normalize with minutes AND with steady improvement.

What I don't understand is people who are convinced he's not worth the development cycles, for a NUMBER of reasons, but not the least of which are these two: the Raps have a strong history of improving players and Nick Nurse has earned the the benefit of the doubt.

Sample size? He’s been terrible for four NBA seasons. No amount of minutes is going to change that.

When the Raptors are fully healthy, he should never even see the floor.

I guess you're going to be really confused when he keeps getting extended minutes if you think the spot/garbage minutes he got in previous seasons were significant for development. Nurse has doubled his MPG this season (28 now) for one reason: to see if they can unlock the player that GS saw and the rookie that Jerry West raved about:

viewtopic.php?p=80574144#p80574144

Like it or not, he's Nurse's 3rd most trusted ballhandler behind Lowry and FVV. If games like the one vs. Charlotte or the road win vs. Boston and the game after vs. OKC become increasingly typical, then they'll keep feeding him.

As I said, benefit of the doubt goes to the team with the league's strongest development engine.

They weren't significant for development (not his anyway, because he didn't show anything in them). They were indicative of him being a scrub, though. A decent game where he actually contributes something every three weeks (instead of his standard being completely terrible) doesn't change that.

When the Raptors get healthy, there's no excuse to play him in front of TD as the 8th man (or if we're being honest with ourselves, ahead of RHJ, Boucher, and Thomas as the 9th/10th/11th either).

[Yeezus_]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

[Randle McMurphy]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

To err is human.

[2019nbachamps]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

Yes, because Masai is perfect. Stanley Johnson is another Masai gem.

Anyone that defends Mccaw is just a Homer. The guy is a below average player getting above average minutes

[nikster]

Sample size? He’s been terrible for four NBA seasons. No amount of minutes is going to change that.

When the Raptors are fully healthy, he should never even see the floor.

I guess you're going to be really confused when he keeps getting extended minutes if you think the spot/garbage minutes he got in previous seasons were significant for development. Nurse has doubled his MPG this season (28 now) for one reason: to see if they can unlock the player that GS saw and the rookie that Jerry West raved about:

viewtopic.php?p=80574144#p80574144

Like it or not, he's Nurse's 3rd most trusted ballhandler behind Lowry and FVV. If games like the one vs. Charlotte or the road win vs. Boston and the game after vs. OKC become increasingly typical, then they'll keep feeding him.

As I said, benefit of the doubt goes to the team with the league's strongest development engine.

They weren't significant for development (not his anyway, because he didn't show anything in them). They were indicative of him being a scrub, though. A decent game where he actually contributes something every three weeks (instead of his standard being completely terrible) doesn't change that.

When the Raptors get healthy, there's no excuse to play him in front of TD as the 8th man (or if we're being honest with ourselves, ahead of RHJ, Boucher, and Thomas as the 9th/10th/11th either).

well prepared to be upset when Mccaw continues to get minutes when this team is healthy

[GreatWhiteStiff]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

Duane Casey would play Andrea Bargnani come hell or high water over Amir Johnson. Colangelo paid him nearly a hundred million. Mike Babcock who was a very respected NHL coach made plenty of baffling common sense decisions that were the opposite of the current coach who has the leafs playing way better than before.

That said I'm fine with McCaw personally. I don't think he's awful.

[Kevin Willis]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

Yes, because Masai is perfect. Stanley Johnson is another Masai gem.

Anyone that defends Mccaw is just a Homer. The guy is a below average player getting above average minutes

I think the opposite is equally true. Anyone who bashes McCaw when he has good games is just out to get him. The question is what is McCaw? What McCaw is supposed to be is an end of the rotation guy that playes good defense, makes smart plays and can hit the the open shot. What he is not supposed to be is a starter on a championship team.

With that expectation - manage what you expect from him. He has missed a lot of time due to injury. He deserves a few minutes to get himself right before dumping him and the Raptors will do that.

What is Stanley Johnson? Stanley Johnson is supposed to be a starter who has strong defense, can drive to the basket and occassionally hit the open 3. He has been in systems that tried to make him a 3 pt shooter or some sort of all-star. What he needs is some patience to reprogram. Masai isn't perfect but I wouldn't say he messed up on a player that just came back from injury and is relearning how to play basketball.

Such an instant satisfaction society nobody has patience anymore for anything,

[will]

You is not a Real GM caliber poster.

[ItsDanger]

At this point, I think we can safely conclude McCaw is a decent injury backup who should only see limited minutes with a healthy roster. Nothing wrong with that as these players are cheap and useful. If he was really good, we wouldn't be able to retain him as an injury backup at a reasonable price.

[2019nbachamps]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

Yes, because Masai is perfect. Stanley Johnson is another Masai gem.

Anyone that defends Mccaw is just a Homer. The guy is a below average player getting above average minutes

I think the opposite is equally true. Anyone who bashes McCaw when he has good games is just out to get him. The question is what is McCaw? What McCaw is supposed to be is an end of the rotation guy that playes good defense, makes smart plays and can hit the the open shot. What he is not supposed to be is a starter on a championship team.

With that expectation - manage what you expect from him. He has missed a lot of time due to injury. He deserves a few minutes to get himself right before dumping him and the Raptors will do that.

What is Stanley Johnson? Stanley Johnson is supposed to be a starter who has strong defense, can drive to the basket and occassionally hit the open 3. He has been in systems that tried to make him a 3 pt shooter or some sort of all-star. What he needs is some patience to reprogram. Masai isn't perfect but I wouldn't say he messed up on a player that just came back from injury and is relearning how to play basketball.

Such an instant satisfaction society nobody has patience anymore for anything,

I agree with you. What annoys me is Mccaw is what you described but is playing huge minutes for us, even in the brief instances this season when most of our team was healthy. He's a guy who should be playing 10 minutes max a night instead playing over 30 minutes. He is no better than RHJ, TD, Boucher and yet he plays way more than them.

[Randle McMurphy]

I guess you're going to be really confused when he keeps getting extended minutes if you think the spot/garbage minutes he got in previous seasons were significant for development. Nurse has doubled his MPG this season (28 now) for one reason: to see if they can unlock the player that GS saw and the rookie that Jerry West raved about:

viewtopic.php?p=80574144#p80574144

Like it or not, he's Nurse's 3rd most trusted ballhandler behind Lowry and FVV. If games like the one vs. Charlotte or the road win vs. Boston and the game after vs. OKC become increasingly typical, then they'll keep feeding him.

As I said, benefit of the doubt goes to the team with the league's strongest development engine.

They weren't significant for development (not his anyway, because he didn't show anything in them). They were indicative of him being a scrub, though. A decent game where he actually contributes something every three weeks (instead of his standard being completely terrible) doesn't change that.

When the Raptors get healthy, there's no excuse to play him in front of TD as the 8th man (or if we're being honest with ourselves, ahead of RHJ, Boucher, and Thomas as the 9th/10th/11th either).

well prepared to be upset when Mccaw continues to get minutes when this team is healthy

I am very prepared to continue to call out how ridiculous that is, yes.

[Randle McMurphy]

You is not a Real GM caliber poster.

That may be so, but it still doesn't change what McCaw is.

[bballsparkin]

Maybe they're playing McCaw heavy minutes to see what they have in case Norm gets dealt. Plus raise McCaw's value. Also it shows players the Raptors respect the players and give them a shot. Pat's had a rough run and now there is no doubt he was given a shot. Makes $4 million this and next. Good for adding to trades.

I think he should stick to making the simple pass. He's good at that. I was impressed with his defense last year. It seems to have regressed this year. More intensity would be nice. Perhaps that's related to the added minutes. Keep taking the threes when open and sometimes aggressive drives to the net. None of that fast break behind the back dribble stuff.

It seems to me many on here lack patience. The season is half way through. NN is somewhat unorthodox and the trade deadline is nearing. Despite injuries the team battles most nights.

[RaptorsNorth]

One of the best NBA executives paid McCaw $4M and one of the best coaches in the league plays McCaw regular minutes. Clearly they believe he’s an NBA player and want to develop him.

But im sure you guys know better.

Every scrub around the league getting minutes have someone that believes in them or else they wouldn't be in the league playing. We believed in Anthony Bennett at a point too. Just because Nurse believes in him it doesn't mean he's a NBA level player.

[Dalek]

Since Siakam, Powell and Gasol went down Patrick McCaw got some significant minutes. From Dec. 19 to Jan 10 here his averages:

31 Mins
8.5 PPG
39 3P%
45 FG%
3 Asts
1.5 Stls
2.3 Deflections

Poor advanced analytics
102.4 ORef
107.4 DRef

To me it's a mixed story. Some good and some bad but the lack of available players points to why he has the big minutes. I think the main factor for him is that he is a steady ballhandler who generally doesn't turn it over too much and makes the right read.

I still see some upside for him in his speed in transition and getting to the rim. I temper that a bit because he is a bit scared or passive considering his speed.

Overall, I think most defenses ignore him and he doesn't make them pay for it. Kind of like how RHJ does a variety of good things, but his on-court presence hurts the offense spacing and flow at times.

[Randle McMurphy]

-18 in 20 minutes. Why this guy played 20 minutes with Norm back we may never know.

[Oakvillehoops]

What do we have to do as fans to get this guy off the team